Nev,
I think you’re starting to see the big picture and the illusion we have been sold.
You now acknowledge that only so much energy can be radiatively absorbed from the surface’s thermal radiation. There is not an endless reserve of energy in the bandwidth that CO₂ and H₂O share—it is a finite amount. I’m also glad you’re starting to recognize that RDE (Radiative De-Excitation), or “back radiation,” does not even play a minor role in surface temperature. It does not happen at the surface under normal atmospheric conditions—only in extreme, isolated cases could this occur.
Now, let’s go back to the extract you provided.
1. You Just Proved That Convection Dominates the Troposphere
Yes, the paper mentions both radiative and convective exchange, but it then explicitly states.
“Vertical variation in the troposphere is controlled byconvection carrying heat up from the lower surface.”
- That is a direct admission that convection dominates the temperature structure, not radiation
- The observed lapse rate follows the adiabatic profile, which is set by pressure and gravity, not radiation.
- If radiation dictated the troposphere’s temperature, we would observe a purely radiative equilibrium gradient—but we don’t.
2. Are You Misrepresenting my Point on "Absorption Only"?
Mmm... not sure. But let’s go over it again for you.
I never said no radiation occurs—I said that in the dense lower troposphere, collisional de-excitation (CDE) dominates over radiative de-excitation (RDE).
This is a basic fact of molecular physics:
- In high-pressure environments, radiative emissions are suppressed because energy is transferred via frequent molecular collisions instead of photon emission.
- This is why the lower troposphere does not radiate energy efficiently—it moves heat through convection instead.
3. Your "Energy Transfer is Energy Transfer" Argument is Nonsense
- The mechanism of energy transfer matters.
- If radiation dictated tropospheric temperature, we would observe radiative equilibrium, not an adiabatic lapse rate.
- But we don’t—we observe a pressure-driven temperature gradient, which is set by convection, not radiation.
I think we need to discuss what we both agree on as opposed to talking past each other Nev. Then we can move on to what we do not agree on.
