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Isa 44:24 - Thus saith Yahweh, thy redeemer, and he that formed...

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tonio

913 Posts.

21/09/20

13:55

Post #: 47504639
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Originally posted by wotsup ↑

If all things are created through Jesus, that means that Jesus was the one who created everything. -->
Are YOU blind or is it a Bible verse says, "you can see and hear but not able to understand?

Isa 44:24 -
Thus saith
Yahweh,
thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I
Yahweh
that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth[B][SIZE=24px]by myself;[/SIZE][/B]
What are you not seeing here?

The above verse and MANY MORE like it, dictate to us as to How we need to read, understand the true context of how through is to be used in this instance and from the above quote, that is very clear.
No hint of through Jesus in it.

You try and down me for incorrectly using the metaphor.
So here is an example that your doing exactly that and I have mentioned it to you before and you ignored it.
Col 1:16 - For in him all things were created.......................

How can all things be created "IN" Jesus????????????
Are you and the trees living in Jesus?
So the "in" context here has to be taken in the context of, by reason of, on account of, for the sake of, because of, but because of the overall Bible message, we know this is in the context of being for, the future one to be.
The first of God's plans, before a world was, was for a future Jesus and John 17:5, reflects that exactly and this plan is and was referred to as Glory.
And Held via God alone before the plan of the world existed WITH Him.

Col 1:16 also says, they, all things were created for him, the Jesus to be.
Hence, in the mind and plans of God, the beginning of his creations Rev 3:14, the firstborn of his creations, the Jesus to be was before all things 1:17.
Now then, after Jesus's raising via God for many years Due 18:18 and the cross etc, all things were place in Jesus's hands, so he is Now literally before all things.
------

If you read the preceding verses it is clear that the Jews believed that this is what Jesus was literally saying
What they believed, thought in regards to what Jesus said, based on many miss understanding by them and Cleary noted in John alone, means absolutely ZERO.
You conveniently leave off the end result, Jess simply leaves them floundering and walks off.

Are you trying to suggest the Bible is wrong in that, before Abraham, God had well and truly formed, had, a plan for a Jesus, 2nd Adam, to be?
Are you then trying to tell me, that this plan could not be spoken of as -> Before Abraham I am?
Another example of before Abraham I am -> John 1:15 John witness concerning him, and he cried out, saying, This was whom I was saying, The one after me coming, precedence over me has, because before me he was.

The Bible clearly shows, John was around, born before Jesus, but due to the mind and plans of God, the Jesus to be, being center stage so to speak, Jesus could rightfully say, "before John I am" and yet literally he was Not.
And YOU Tonio, cannot dispute/counter this from the Bible.
--------

All things are from the Father, through the Son and by the power of the Holy Spirit
Goodness me mate, the Father and the Holy Spirit are one in the SAME = The Almighty God and Father = One as in singular.
Spirit/Word/Light -> Elohim,.......hence the one plural God that created all things, alone and by himself, with some on lookers of some creation areas, but Jesus not being one of them and confirmed in the following by him;
Matt 19:4 - [SIZE=16px]And he answered and said unto them, [/SIZE][B][SIZE=16px]Have ye not read,[/SIZE][/B][SIZE=16px][SIZE=16px] that [/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=24px][B]he[/B][/SIZE][SIZE=16px][SIZE=16px] which made[/SIZE][/SIZE] [SIZE=16px]them[/SIZE] at the beginning made them male and female,

"Have you not read",.............He is saying this as in, have you not done what I have done and read these words.
That is How Jesus found out, as the Context shows, suggests.
--------
In the beginning was the word .............take OFF you glasses, trinity glasses and get serious about checking out the meanings of Logos.
Logos means as much, thought, mind, reason, IN YOU as it does word, words expressed.
Example -> In the beginning was the Word -> Eph 3:9, Titus 1:2 and the Word Eph 3:9, Titus 1:2 was with the God and God was the Word.
Eph 3:9, Titus 1:2 is before creation and IN God, hence it is also Him, part of him.

The same, this, it -> Eph 3:9, Titus 2:1 was in the beginning with God.
Hence -> 1:4 In Him (God) life was -> Eph 3:9, Titus 2:1 and that Life -> Eph 3:9, Titus 2:1 was the light of Men.
Light of men -> Psa 119:105 - Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

1:14 And the Word (part of, the plan, as the creation part has happened) flesh became................and they beheld the Glory of him.

Glory -> John 12:49 - For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Resulting in -> John 5:26 For as the Father has life in himself (John 1:4, in His word), so has he given to the Son to have life inhimself.
Confirmation -> John 6:68 - Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Also meaning -> John 12:46 I am come a [SIZE=16px]light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16px]He become a light as the light = the word of God of which much of it centered around Jesus and the rest (the Word) was fed, (Raised) over many many years, effectively placed in Jesus.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px]He became the carrier of the words of eternal life, those words/life, that were IN God in John 1:4.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16px]The very reason Jesus after being born in the image of God (2nd Adam), BECAME the express image as when he then spoke, he expressed out The Word =God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16px]John 14:10 - (God in the Temple) - [BCOLOR=#ffffff][FONT=Roboto][COLOR=#001320][SIZE=16px]Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the [/SIZE][B][SIZE=16px]Father that dwelleth in me,[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/BCOLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=24px][BCOLOR=#ffffff][FONT=Roboto][COLOR=#001320][B] he[/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/BCOLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=16px][BCOLOR=#ffffff][FONT=Roboto][COLOR=#001320][B][SIZE=16px] ---> doeth the works. (Acts 2:22).
[/SIZE][/B]
John 4:24 Spirit the God is,.........................and that Spirit is the One Holy Spirit, which Jesus is not.
God's word is also Spirit and light John 6:63, hence Spirit/Word/Light (God) was dwelling in Jesus and doing the works.
But in this case now, God was literally doing things through Jesus, but also for, because of, for the sake of etc.[/COLOR][/FONT][/BCOLOR][/SIZE]

Expand

Isa 44:24 - Thus saith Yahweh, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I Yahweh that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earthby myself;

What are you not seeing here?

Wotsup,
What is concealed in the Old Testament has been revealed in the New Testament
The Father created all things through Jesus with the power of the Holy Spirit.

Col 1:16
Berean Study Bible
For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Wotsup,
Jesus is before all things. All things were created through Jesus and for Jesus.
If all things were created in Jesus, then Jesus must be outside of creation. Only God is outside creation.
Jesus is one being with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Matt 19:4 - And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

"Have you not read",.............He is saying this as in, have you not done what I have done and read these words.
That is How Jesus found out, as the Context shows, suggests

Wotsup,
Once again you have misread scripture.
Jesus says Have ye not read, not have we not read.

Jesus was there, he did not have to read about it. God said "let us make man in our image"
The "he" that made man was the Father, through the Son with the power of the Holy Spirit.

Wotsup, The God that made you is the one that gave you your spirit.

Eccles 12:7
New King James Version
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Acts 7:59
King James Bible
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

Wotsup,
What is concealed in the Old Testament has been revealed in the New.
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