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he main reason I didn't answer your earlier post is because it's full of errors I didn't know where to start. I'll give you just one example. There are many more...."
As you haven't proved any errors from the BIBLE, then your words mean ZERO, therefore (it appears) you're commenting on preconceived ideas and Not the Bible.
But don't take that as being offensive as I have been there, it was like my lights were on and no one home.
I would see verses, but I wasn't really seeing them for what they say, but my set seeds were doing the interpretations and if someone had told me this, I would have laughed at them.
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The Father is God then so is Jesus."
No, he is the Son of the Only True God and Father as he outlines in John 17:3 and as per the reasons the Book of John was written for, which is NOT to show that Jesus was God or God in the flesh etc.
No one is arguing over the two meanings of begotten, but the fact remains, until you are begotten, you are Not the begotten one.
Psa 2:7 -
I will (not yet) declare the decree: Yehowah has said to Me, ‘Youare My Son, Today I have begotten You.
(We only see this at his Baptism).
Luke -> the word and power = Holy Spirit which is the Fathers, came down and made the Son and because of this, he WILL BE called the Son of God = Begotten.
What you're saying above there is equal to -> A King has a Son and you say the Son must be King or a King as well, HMMMM.
Begotten means exactly that, you once were not, we are all, including Jesus to be begotten.
Jesus was clearly begotten in a different manor and the only begotten Son could simply be referring to timing, at that time there were no other begotten ones, as they would have to be begotten through him.
The official begotten could also only be at his Baptism when God announces, this is my son Psa 2:7, but never the less, whenever doesn't matter, but is certainly wasn't before his birth.
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When Jesus is referred to as the firstborn, it doesn't mean the first created of God's creation."
I made that very clear, that the Bible does not support a literal creation of him, as in firstborn of creation.
His creation, making is as per the BIBLE, by the word via the angel and power = Holy Spirit that the Father is and that is what come down from heaven, nothing else according to the overall scriptures.
It's pretty much like, let there be light..........let there be a Jesus and he was good and grew in favor with God, to the extent that God makes a public announcement, this is my Son whom I am well pleased with Psa 2:7 for example.
He was MADE lower than angels for the suffering of death = Absolutely Nothing in there that he was reduced from something greater, that is his all time "making".
To say otherwise, is to ADD to the Bible.
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"Many times Jesus is declared to be the firstborn of God (see Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:15, 18; Hebrews 1:6; 12:23; Revelation 1:5). These passages declare the preexistence, the sovereignty, and the redemption that Christ offers."
The only ones there that speak of before Jesus come is Rom 8:29 and Col 1:15, the rest are the literal firstborn from the dead and do ZERO to support a pre-existing one.
Those two are in reference to the plans within the God and Father, right where your creations unquestionably Begin.
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"(1) first in time sequence, the first to be born; or (2) first in position, the highest ranking person. In reference to Jesus (2) applies for various reasons."
2 is NOT in reference to Jesus 1 is as per Col 1:15 and as we know he wasn't literally made before all other creations, we are left NO option for it to be referring to the firstborn of creation in the mind of God, where your creations begin, for a Jesus to be, born from Mary.
Col's is talking about a literal firstborn context, 1:15 though is as I have shown and 1:18 firstborn from the dead = literally, setting the stage for all contexts here of what the firstborn is referring to.
Sorry to have to say it, but you are coming from a conditioning mind set.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation,
because in Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that in all things He may have the preeminence."Image" -> This is speaking of the Jesus in the here and now of the times and the 1st Adam was in the image of God, likewise the 2nd Adam, who after being raised by the Father in His word Deu 18:18, Became the express image of the Fathers person (The Word) when he expressed out the Fathers words Heb 1:3 KJV, John 14:10.
"Firstborn of creation" -> In the mind and plans of the God and Father, hid in Him (Eph), for a Jesus to be, born from Mary, where all your creations unquestionably begin, as with your words. Rev 3:14, the beginning of God's inner creations and the one to be, slain in this plan Rev 13:8. Gens 3:15.
Reasons WHY he is deemed as the firstborn of creation;
"Because in Him" -> Nothing was literally made in him = For this reason, because of the one to be, who was a plan to be in the mind of the Father Before all other plans for creation Rev 13:8, 3:14, which were expressed forth by Yehowah alone and by himself Isa 44:24, Psa 33:6,9, before the plan for a Jesus was expressed forth John 17:8, 16:27, 28. and Luke.
"all things were created" -> Isa 44:24 - Thus says Yehowah, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: “I Yehowah (Father), who makes allthings, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;
Psa 33:6,9 -
By the word of Yehowah the heavens were made, And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
For He spoke, and it wasdone; He commanded, and it stood fast.
"Through him" -> dia: through, on account of, because of
Original Word:διά
Part of Speech:Preposition
Transliteration:dia
Phonetic Spelling:(dee-ah')
Definition:through, on account of, because of
Usage:(a) gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of. -> the future one to be born from Mary.
"And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist." -> That context is screamingly obvious from the above and is in effect a summary of it.The Jesus to be, was the first and foremost thought in the mind of the Father and for him all things consist and through him the following is to be achieved.Titus 1:2 - in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, (as we know it and I would say here, that the promise was to God himself and included in his logos/plan John 1:1b).2 Tim 1:9 - who has saved us and calledus with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
(Again, through the Jesus to be as that name of his, didn't not come into being until his birth, THAT is the Jesus that's being spoken of here, the time stamp, not a pre-existing one).These people in 2 Tim, like Jesus can rightfully ask the following of the Father, and yet they likewise were not literally with the Father.John 17:5 - And now glorify Me You, Father, with yourself, with glory which held before the world existed, with You.There is NO "I" as in "I had" in this verse, which most Bibles have, not that it matters, as these people can rightfully ask for the same.It was the Father alone who held this glory, he sees things not yet done, as though they are and the Bible supports this."firstborn from the dead, so that in all things He may have the preeminence."What firstborn means, is CLEARLY defined here, as per 1:15, it is just a different context.
Neither of the two Col firstborns are in the context of ranking.
Jesus here has clearly gone from a plan to have preeminence to now physically having preeminence, due to what he has done, achieved etc, so that the God and Father maybe ALL in ALL.
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JUST TO CLEAR UP A MATTER, NOT ONCE HAVE I CLAIMED TO BE A GREEK EXPERT, WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS CREATION FROM?
All I do is LOOK at the Inerlinears and don't just swallow the English words placed bellow the Greeks, which at times do not align with the Greeks actual definitions, hence bias translations in areas.
