From the moment I read Brett's email, until the time we met was a blur....
I had to move some things around during the day....we already had dinner plans set with the family, and my youngest was speaking for the first time in front of her school, at the pre long weekend school assembly.
But this meeting HAD to happen.
This opportunity was just too important to pass up
So, we aimed for around 4:15 to 4:30.
I suggested "The Bank' in Collins Street, which is the original Australasia bank, the forerunner to today's ANZ.
So, not at the finance/Paris end of Collins street, down the other end in the law/court precinct.
A beautiful old historic building, where many of the original features have been restored, including the teller counters,
where they sometimes serve drinks through.
It was convenient, directly across Collins street is where I was booked in with the family for dinner, but best of
all, it has happy hour on Fridays at 430-630...I'm going to get this guy liquored up!!!
I wanted to prep.
I wanted to buy a bottle of Kraken, to present to him on behalf of the forum.
I wanted to get a few selfies.
But in the mad rush of the day, I didn't do any of it!
Managed to get a little prep in, misses is barking we need to get to school NOW for the speech...rush to school,
assembly, the speech...very proud dad....schools out at 3:30..rush, get the kids home...get changed as quickly as possible,
quick brush your hair girls...quick...you can't wear that girls!!!...change again...quick, get in the car....drive into the CBD and pray there's no traffic...
Burn up Kingsway...then up king st, bang right down Bourke because Collins is always stuffed...luckily there's no traffic because everyone knocked off early and has headed out for the long weekend,
green light, green light, green light....fark, that never happens??!!....burn into the carpark at Galleria...seeya kids, seeya misses, I ll catch you at dinner later...and headed up Collins street.
Managed to get there by 4:20! Phew......try and relax. God's honest truth, I was unsettled, fidgety and bloody nervous.... trying to calm myself, control my breathing and get back to some semblance of control.
Now, anyone who lives in Melbourne would tell you if you're planning to pick your kids up from school at 3:30 in Sth Mel, go home, get the kids ready...pile them in the car,
drive into the CBD, park and be in a bar in Collins street by 4:20, forget it , you're mad...it's impossible.....but it happened...
I guess it was meant to be...
So, I actually beat Brett there.
Great, order 2 pints, get a table and have the booz ready to flow.
I had positioned myself at the back of the bar, on the last table, with eyes down the room looking toward the entrance.
Brett arrives about ten later, and I was already through half the pint of Matilda Bay.
I stand and wave, he spots me and heads over, As he got close, he extended his hand with a warm smile.
It was instinctive, the emotive Greek coming to the fore... "Give me a hug mate!' I just grabbed him, He awkwardly obliged, laughed, turned red and sat down.
We spoke a little about family, a little about the footy.
He's a Blues supporter and I am Bombers.
There's a big game Sunday night, The inaugural King's Birthday Eve Blues/Bombers game they want to make a yearly thing.
I said we should go, and he said, 'How about we get a box...a Sayona box', tongue in cheek.
I didn't know Brett was half Italian/half Irish...and I am a Greek, so there was a lot of hand waving going on...
But the passion, the drive, the enthusiasm....from both of us, was next level.....
But when we got down to it, there was too much going on, too much conversation....so only managed to get through 2 pints!
Sorry Scroll and Molla.....Soft effort that......2 pints and no Kraken...although I did fill him in on our adopted dark indulgence.
The vision and the plan continue to evolve and grow, and the market certainly hasn't caught up with the mechanics of what is transpiring.
And he is NO-FOOL...
There have been some comments on the forum about his ability, about his business acumen, about who is in control.
This guy is thinking BIG, and has the brains, the balls, the drive, the experience, the street smarts, the aggression...and now Governmental support and connections, to make this all happen.
Brett is driving the bus....no one else.....the balance of power has shifted....and the person many on here thought was driving the bus, is barely hanging on and has been lucky enough to have scrounged up a ticket to get onboard. And I don't even know if he has a seat, I think its standing room only...down the back.
He thanked ME, for making the effort and time to meet with him......thanked me???
I said you got this all wrong...
'Thank you, Brett, for respecting my viewpoint enough, to warrant a meet with me. It's not every day the CEO of a multi-billion-dollar company invites you for a beer.'
I haven't even met the CEO of the company I work for!
He countered- 'I would rather be here with you, than the bankers I am usually with. No bankers here mate, just you...and me....a butcher's boy from the burbs of Melbourne and a Greek bloke having a beer'
You have invested, how much may I ask? How much? Right? SO YOU ARE IN..WITH YOUR OWN MONEY...not someone else's, yours. You stumped up your hard earned...me too.....and you guys are the ones I enjoy having a beer with. These other guys throw figures around and invest with other people's money. There's a fundamental difference.
I used to follow Hot Copper quite closely, but not so much these days...no time. The info, research, facts you uncover...you would run rings around those guys, those analysts. And there is a few of you around the world, similar to you, I love catching up with.'
So, the ice had well and truly been broken, and we felt comfortable enough to let our guards down a bit, to let the expletives fly a little.... and be straight.
The Email-
This may come across as aggressive in print when you read the following.
Please take it in this context-- 2 old mates, catching up, with a lot to say and being very straight with . Great banter, all very cordial...but very colourful too.
He acknowledges, a lot of pertinent points were raised, and these issues have been re-occurring for a while.
Errors in announcements, lack of communication, continually missed targets....
ERRORS....
'So last AGM, I mentioned the errors in communication.
Back then, you were in the process of planning a new office, with additional staff, to assist the Australian based team and improve the local governance and ASX reporting. Great, that is exactly what we wanted to hear. So how the f*** does this keep happening? You sent announcement out 2 days ago, and it's still got the old bloody company address on it!!! They used the old template.
Some basic arithmetic, basic accounts....more mistakes.
I know it seems like sh**, but it's what the aholes lap up and use against us.
The leeches thrive on these weaknesses, spread fear and conjecture and increase the pressure on the SP. We can't give them anything....
So, New office, new staff, Dougal etc....BUT IT'S STILL HAPPENING!
The conversation then swung back to the office being under pressure. The governance since entering the 200 has ramped the workload considerable. Continual comms from the ASX, we require this, we require that.
So, although there had been additional resources allocated, they have been absorbed by this increase in workload. (He actually mentioned as a comparison, PLL and their NASDAQ listing. Keith essentially had to hire 20 lawyers, to control the governance and reporting to the marktes/SEC.)
It shall improve though.
As we know, there is a changing of the guard in the office, and this should net us improvements in comms and reduce the error rate.
We need to improve, and hopefully this change in the office dynamics is enough leverage for the younger blood to prove themselves and keep things on track.
SP, MANIPULATION AND SHORTING...
'Brett, Since we entered the 200, we have been beaten down and played with.
Look at the chart...hammered straight down. TA means nothing and the chart is bipolar.
Look at the trading... shorted, volumetric algorithmic manipulation, cross trades, special cross trades...every bloody cross trade possible....cross trades I didn't even know existed. There are days when during certain periods, you can't even spot 1 ASX trade..its all - XT, S2, LT EXT, CXXT, NXXT...WTF???'
I know mate, leeches...'
Brett, You are well within your rights here mate, to have this examined. I mean forensically investigated. Just reach out to these specialists and see what they have to say....and let the market know what you are doing...There would probably be no naked shorts, but the argument then swings to- Are these true market forces of supply and demand? And that's when you get them...many companies have...'You let the market know it's on notice...'
He doesn't like it either and has taken it under advisement.
So, we shall see if anything is pursued in this area. If I do speak to Dougal, I will float the idea with him as well.
TIMELINES AND MISSED TARGETS-
I let him know, 'We are understanding of late timelines.
Situations arise, curveballs come out from no-where....we get it....
But if you miss a timeline....put something out....something. You need more time, additional parties interested, study incomplete...The PFS, has been delayed due this....or delayed due that.
Why have we not heard anything? And it's not just us....The MARKET expects something.
Why?
Because Sayona set the expectation, had indicated in official comms, we were to expect at least 2, maybe 3 announcements...April, May, June....
In anticipation of this, we saw a change in the trading patterns.
Some positivity in the SP and meaningful increase day by day. This reached its peak in late May, and what did we get? A bloody CR?? Really???
Everyone was gutted mate.'
'Yes Lou, we do need to improve the comms. There really is a lot happening and we are looking at all avenues to form the best strategies going forward.
These avenues are continually opening up. We hook one we think is favourable, and a better one comes along. We hook a barra and marlin comes along...
But your right, we need to improve and get some more comms out.'
CR
'So, Brett, on the CR, I thought we had money.
Why did we need to raise, the dilution is killing me!
I am watching my investment drop by 10% in front of my eyes.
I know, it's great to have money and to keep the plan rolling. We must have shiXloads now, we probably have tax credits too, so why did we head that way. It gives the knuckleheads
more ammo for doubt.'
'That was a tough decision, Lou. The board really grappled with that, as a couple of board members have been through tough times where they lost their company.
And they are determined to not have this happen here. We just went through soft lithium pricing, and although we think it will be strong, we will safeguard against it, if it isn't.
And even though we are operating within our means, we have some ideas...some capex for the concentration and refining circuits. We are heading to 4200tpd and want to head to 4500 by the end of the year. We can do that.
To get to 5500, I have previously mentioned, we will trial in pit ore sorting/metal rejection, but are also examining the feasibility of duplicating the grinding circuit-rod and ball mill and pushing output north of 300,000 concentrate.
So, it gives us the ability to pull the trigger if we determine its feasible.
Additionally, that money in reserve is insurance. We examined credit, but the interest rate,the strings or hooks. They get their hooks in, it gives them leverage and it's hard to shake them.'
We spoke a little of Whabouchi, and how they got the jump on us, but now we are ahead.
Capital...having continual working capital maintains the velocity and maintains the trajectory.
CARBONATE PLANT
'Brett, in the RB energy days the carbonate plant seemed complete. The articles of the time, state 99.9% battery grade carbonate was produced and and the plant was in a ramp phase to 20kt/pa. All the photos and videos I can find it look complete. Tanks, crystallizers etc....I have seen the old stock on site, bags, sacks and pallets of carbonate. Can't we recommission, just fire it up and start producing?
'Yeah, I told them to sell all that old stock...we need the room.
'My understanding...it is a demo plant.
Yes, it has produced, but not at commercial scale, bulk samples only. Certain equipment has to be upgraded, including the crystallizer. Lead time at the moment is around 20 months.'
'OK then, just order the f***ing thing. Let's go. You have the PFS as a guide, HATCH knows the place inside out, you now have the cash, you'll get 30% tax credit on the bulk of it, what's the hold up? And this 2026??/ WTF??? There's greenfield sites that will be completed within 24 months.
That is mid 2025, if you start now. '
Brett, Do you remember in the AGM, when you were discussing the carbonate PFS, I burst out and said cmon, of course it's the best way forward, or something to that effect. Well, it is, and it doesnt take 3 years, not with the existing infrastructure. I wasn't always pro carbonate. when I started investing in lithium it was all about hydroxide and so was I.
But the tech, advancing LFP chemistries and low cost, safety, high cycles and rapid charge rates, and now rapid adoption, I just see carbonate demand continually improving. In The latest S&P Platt's report, battery grade carbonate has overtaken hydroxide in price, and there were sales of US$50,000!!! So I am a big fan of carbonate now.'
'Lou, I am a big fan of carbonate too....'
We then discussed the hold ups and lead times, but it still wasn't adding up to me.
I pushed him on this, and although got nothing concrete, from what I could determine.......My take here....let's just say mine, and some other posters suspicions seem accurate.
As for the PFS, as Dougal has stated, they do have it, and I get the impression there are some additional details they are working through to incorporate before released.
RESOLUTE PAPER MILL, AMOSS
It is certainly known, in the public domain, that Sayona has been interested in purchasing and repurposing this site.
"So, how are we looking at Amoss Brett? There certainly is precedence in converting a papermill to lithium refinery. I emailed Quebec recently, and they confirmed talks are ongoing.'
He looked over and smiled...enough said...
MOBLAN PFS
I couldn't really decipher what was going on here, or I missed the point. The bush fire situation kind of hijacked the discussion.
So, everyone in the area, including Moblan have been evacuated. Crazy to think that only a few weeks ago it was below zero, is very green and has fresh water everywhere.
But from what I could gather, they are leaning toward letting the drilling do the talking at Moblan.
It may have been a hasty decision to schedule a PFS so early, when the resource is being so extensively drilled.
So, it's kind of pointless putting out one now, when by the end of the year, the resource could be 4 times what it is now, and the PFS will be defunct.
They haven't hidden the potential here and there is every chance it will be the low strip ratio, high grade 1.4% 150-200MT behemoth that we all think it can be.
And we all know what that is worth.
OFFTAKE
'Brett, I have certain shares in company's I own, who are not producing until 2025, yet they were sold out a year ago. How can we be shipping product, from multiple ports, in a few weeks, and not know where our concentrate is headed.
I mean we know, where half is going, but the other half??? You have mentioned GM, and Ford numerous times, we already have connections to LG and Tesla via PLL. C'mon, its Ford isnt it...cmon...???
'We have previously communicated we have had conversations with GM and Ford, and LG is keen to source IRA compliant product.'
Gee can you narrow it down a little? But I got nothing.
We talked about the massive requirements that ALL these guys will have, including VW, with their recent backing by the Canadian Government's massive investment. These guys will all need concentrate, refined products, cam products, you name it.
"So, I guess we will find out next month anyway, when you announce first shipment?.', and he kind of nodded, but was still non committal.
GOVERNMENT
We spoke about The Trudeau visit.
He was only supposed to spend a little time with Brett after addressing the troops, but he ended up spending some solid time with him.
A continual theme of the evening...the Government support, at provincial and Federal level seems to have gone to the next level.
Canada, Quebec.....???
Trudeau, Fitzgibbon, Champagne......all these guys are involved and are very aware of who we are and what we need, including utilities and resources.
I said, 'Did you hit up JT for some cash?? we need money mate...cash. I reckon I would have hounded him until he wrote a cheque....just to get rid of me?"
"Yeah, we spoke for a while, showed him around and discussed our plans. He was blown away by the scale of NAL, and what we have done here. He seemed very keen.
By the end of the visit, I think he was impressed and said-'How can we help?'
So, stay tuned here, nothing formal, but a lot of positive rhetoric.
EXPANSION
Seems to be always sitting in the background this one.
We had Jourdan and Troilus out of left field, so we know these guys are always on the lookout.
One of SB's previous theories seemed to resonate here, as well as a possible opportunity with neighbours.
INSTITUTIONAL/RETAIL.
Brett was very clear here.
He owes a great debt to the support he has been shown by the humble retail investor. It's more his world, more of who he aligns with.
He sees us all as part owners of what is being built here, and would love if we could all, someday, see NAL in the flesh, as Spit has.
There is a place for both, and a healthy register indeed has sustainable levels of both.
He hasn't forgotten about us, and acknowledges they need to do more to engage the retail following.
So, I am hoping, with a little poking and prodding, we can help push that barrow a little further.
PLL OFFTAKE
Great relationship but Will not be renegotiated....
Confirmed offtake includes all concentrate from NAL, 50%, LOM, 900, even from Vallee, unless allocated to downstream
I gave him my glowing viewpoint...
TAKEOVERS
Not worried.
Simply not worried.
What really made an impression, is the momentum we are gathering.
Yeah, we are getting played at the moment, but the underlying mechanics continually improve.
Continually improve from different angles and along different avenues, of which the culmination will be staggering.
Brett mentioned that the work done in the background has led to the train having already left the station.
We can't see all the workings and see everything happening in the boiler room, but suffice to say, it is gaining momentum and is probably already unstoppable.
And he is adamant we are just the current custodians, and we will pass the torch to our families, when we have departed this earth. But the train will keep powering
and powering...and really, who is going to stop it?
I invited him to dinner with the family, but he respectfully declined, I had bailed him up long enough it seems.
We parted ways, looking forward to the next catch up.
We exchanged a couple of texts, the last one from Brett-
Look forward to another round, maybe Kraken at Stalactites next time?
Wow, I really thought this time, I was going to get through this post without a Kraken reference!
Good luck everyone...
(20min delay)
