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MH17 witness in jail in Russia, page-49

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exberliner1

7,956 Posts.

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21/07/15

21:44

Post #: 15670980
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Originally posted by Katoom ↑

If you are going to quote what I said keep it accurate. I clearly stated "The only 30mm gatling cannon in existence is the GAU-8 fitted to the A-10 Warthog. " not that only the A-10 had a 30mm cannon. Big difference between a single barrel, dual barrel and a Gatling cannon.

The idea that a SU-25 was used by Ukrainians to intercept and destroy flight MH-17 with cannon fire is a ridiculous scenario and completely implausible given the factual flight envelop and performance of the SU-25 - You couldn't pick a worse performing poorly armed aircraft than a SU-25 for trying to intercept another aircraft.

Once again facts about the SU-25 there is no debate about it's capability these are the facts.

- The SU-25 is a ground attack fighter only capable of low to medium altitudes, highly unsuited to intercepting and/or shooting down 777s Ukraine has far more capable interceptor aircraft than the SU-25

- The SU-25 max speed with clean configuration is slower than a cruising 777

- The SU-25 has an operational ceiling of just 16000 ft with full ordnance to 23000 ft clean, MH17 was at 33000 ft likely travelling at cruising speed of 900 kph plus.

- It is an unpressurised aircraft. (Even if the pilot carried oxygen the plane still can't get above 23,000 feet clean).

Fact - The SU-25 scenario is impossible given the aircraft performance and weapon capabilities. There is absolutely no way a SU-25 could get close enough to a B777 at 33,000 feet crusing at 900 kph to hit it with cannon fire.

Now for the missiles the SU-25 can carry and launch at aircraft, again completely implausible based on facts.

SU-25 can only carry two types of very small short range infared (heat seeking) air to air missiles, the SU-25 does not have the radar and weapon systems to launch a medium/long range radar air to air missile.

The damage to the cockpit area of MH-17 is completely inconsistent with the damage caused by a IR missile which would seek and hit the strongest heat source directly, the engine thrust outlet. IR missiles are not proximity warheads. It is also completely inconsistent with damage caused by a 30mm cannon.

K-13 Missile These are obsolete 1950s IR missiles the effective range is only about 300m to 2 kms the SU-25 would not be able to reach a position to enable it to launch a missile with such limited capability, even if a SU-25 did fire a K-13 missile with an extremely lucky shot the missiles small warhead of only about 16 lbs is only suited for use against small aircraft it would only damage the turbofan engine of a B-777.

R-60 Missile. Extremely unlikely again it's a IR guided missile with a tiny 6 lb warhead only designed to be used against small aircraft. It's range is only about 300m to 3-4km effective range, possibly 5km max range. Even if it could reach a B777 It would only be capable of damaging the turbofan engine not destroying the aircraft.

There was an instance where a R-60 missile was fired at something the size of a small business jet, while the warhead destroyerd one engine it was still able to safely land on one engine and a lear jet sized aircraft is the fraction of the size of a B777
IR missiles were used against Korean flight 007 - however they were much larger K-8 missile with 88 lb warhead fired from a SU-15 interceptor and from within 1 mile of range.

The BUK SA-11 is a large 150 lb warhead all the wreckage pictures clearly indicate that a large radar guided proximity warhead detonated near the cockpit of MH-17 not a tiny R-60 6 lb warhead of a IR missile hitting a engine. That damage is completely consistent with the ideal attack angle of a SAM like the SA-11 and it's 150 lb proximity shrapnel warhead.

The warhead of the SA-11 is designed to mainly send shrapnel sideways it does not send it out in a cone like a shotgun, that's why the majority of damage is to cockpit side with very small amount of damage hitting a front wing area. SAM are designed to hit aircraft from the side to maximise damage and provide proximity fuse the largest surface area to detect which is at an angle from about 60 degrees from the warhead.

Also SAM operators idealy fire misiles from in front of the target to minimise missile flight time so that missile doesn't need to chase the aircraft.

I don't beleive the Russians or separatists purposely shot down MH-17 it was a tragic accident during war time, however the separatists would have minimal training and experience using the SA-11 and likely did think they were shooting at a Ukrainian transport aircraft.

Those are the facts on the SU-25,K-13,R-60 and SA-11

Kat.

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Nice post Kat.

I put something simillar to that on HC last year when everyone was going on about the famous Carlos as proof that an SU25 shot down MH17. It was quite telling that the Wikipedia entry describing an SU25 was falsely altered to show a ceiling of 35,000 feet and an expanded weapons system to include heavy duty air to air missiles. Wikipedia traced the computer used for this alteration to a computer in central Moscow ... in The Kremlin.

http://gawker.com/did-russian-officials-edit-wikipedia-to-back-up-a-bogus-1609071757

Net result some of the posters contributing to this thread and now on my ignore list starting referring to me as Nazi Fascist scum once they realised that I live in Ukraine.

I still wonder how many of them actually live in Russia and work at 55 Savushkina Street in St Petersburg.

As they will be reading this ... hello tin foil hat people ... you know who you are don't bother replying you are on ignore.

EB

Last edited by exberliner1: 21/07/15
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