How Ya goin Tonio,
Get a cuppa, sorry, not prepared to dish out "half" truths.
Now there is a bit of colour, as these points are of importance, and need attention.
Somehow, you need to switch off your seed temporarily, and let God speak, if you ever get it, you will then think your reading a new updated version of God's Word, the Bible, trust me on that one!
Yes,,that was a rather careless error by me and you also put forward some fare and reasonable points for one to consider/answer.
I'll just give a heads up as to what probably happened there.
You may not realize, between you and Glyco, I had been putting in quite a bit of time, to try and be helpful and each one of my posts, I seek and search each time, so there not copy/paste, and you might say, a bit of giving of myself.
The reason their often long is because, I will Not cherry pick and I like to back up what I say, so it is beyond doubt as to what I'm putting forward. In other words, let God do the talking and not wotsup.
However, they appear to be pretty much, thrown back in my face, gift rejected.
So I have to be honest, to me, it feels like a kick in the guts, but more so to "our's" above, as all that I have and know is from them.
Having said this, it is not an acceptable excuse for my blunder, we are accountable for our own actions.
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Just a quick point before answering the following.
Trust me when I say,
I know full well how hard it is, to see, digest and accept another view when one has had another for so long.
A driving force for that is the likes of - Well,,, for many years we have had all the expert scholars going over this with a fine tooth comb, so they must be "right", they just must be!
Don't loose sight of the fact, my mission and desperately I was, was to prove the Trinity correct and stick it up our friend Bowral haha.
No matter how hard I tried, the opposite kept rearing it's ugly head haha, my mind at the time.
So repeatedly, and still the question arises, HOW could this be and is it possible that the other side could be behind this?
So as always, I look to the Bible for the answers and when we look at the numerous verses, it not only suggest, YES it can, but pretty much says,
"it will". Angel of light for one, the average person would not have a clue if they have
"never" known otherwise! WHO and WHAT have "they" got to compare and liaise
"with"?
Now it's not for me to say, your this or your that as "my" word is irrelevant, so I will provide
what God and Jesus say.
My own wording that I do provide, trust me, it will more often than not, be well and truly supported or the message, from the Bible and if it were not so, I would Not tell you so. (But I'm not faultless and happy to be corrected, team work, for the One cause).
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Greek 2 Cor 11:3 -
I am afraid moreover, lest by any means as the serpent deceived Eve in the craftiness of him, should be corrupted the minds for the simplicity, and the purity, the into/unto the Christ.
Question - Is this or the likes of, "just" for those others, or is it for all of us?
By any means - Matt 4:3 - And saith unto him,
If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in
their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Do You see the Key message in this verse - The point is, Satan if pretty much challenging Jesus as to WHO he is, "The Son
of God.
Nothing whatsoever as to whether Jesus was God, or 1/3 of "A" ONE God"!
Trinity
ONE God = God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
What does Jesus refer to this ONE God as;
John 20:17 -
"I" ascend to My Father and your Father and My God and your God = Jesus had to be, ascending to a
2/3's of ONE God on your belief!
John 20:31 - But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;.................
Not God the Son?
Now pretty much all the said expert essays on the trinity "finish" along the lines of, no one can really explain it and it is "the mystery" of God (disclaimer) = What about = The Simplicity in Jesus?
What about = Greek - John 17:3 - This moreover is the eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and whom you did send, Jesus Christ.
any means - Question/thought = The ONE True God is ONE as in Singular as in ONE Apple.
Elohim Moses was one "of" and we know he is but ONE as in The one Apple, likewise, so is God, who is The Word, The Holy Spirit as He is Spirit and He is the True Light John 1:9 because God IS Light 1 John 1:5 and The Father of Lights James 1:17 = Elohim = Plural = The aspects of God and of which, there are many more as in LOVE etc.
any means = ??? Satan provides all the ingredients - Father, Son, Holy Spirit = places them in a bag, does the hokey pokey with them, shakes them all about = Angel of light, sheep in wolf's clothing, so you know not who is the True God and true Son.
2 Thes 2:10-11 - And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
And "no matter" what someone presents to you, you will "not" be able to "see it"!
Luke 13:27 - But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
the simplicity, 2 Sam 7:12 - And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
Matt 3:17 - And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
house John 2:19& 21 - Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
But he spake of the temple of his body.
In Hebrew from whence John the Baptist came (Jew), the word for "Flesh" is Basar and it has "dual" meanings, although the Word is spelled the same, but it is sounded different when actually spoken.
The "other" meaning of this word and used at least 8-10 times that I'm aware of in the OT (further checking req), "which" interprets the NT is - Basar = Good News/Messenger.
Hebrew - Greek - John 1:14 - And the Word Basar became and Tabernacled in us (or among us)................
1:14 Means = And the Word Good News and Messenger became..........."IN" The Temple - Jesus, and come to the people from the Temple and became "in" them = How, Why = John 14:10 = Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 6:68 - Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast The Words of eternal life.
Where from and "when" = Luke 4:18 - The Spirit of the LORD (The Almighty God and Father) is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
John 4:24 - God Spirit (is).....(John 3:35 &34 - The Father loveth the Son..........and he (Jesus) speaketh the words of God; for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
Therefore and "because of" = John 5:26 - For as the Father hath life in himself so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself.
in himself = John 1:4 - In him was life; and "that" life "was" the light of men. Before Jesus had life in himself.
Psa 119:105 - Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
John 12:46 - I am come "a" light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
The into the world, was after His Baptism, anointed to Bring the Good News, The Word which is also Spirit, meaning.... when Jesus received the Spirit without measure, He also received most of the God & Fathers Word, without measure as well.
The forerunner or example and meaning of John 1:14, is as the OT shows;
Ex 40:34 - Then a cloud covered the tent (Jesus in 1:14) of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. (Jesus).
John 1:14 - The Almighty God & Father filled the Tent/Temple, not made with hands, "Jesus" and the Glory "now" is of both.
The prelude, example of what was to follow;
1 Cor 6:19 - What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
2 Cor 6:16 - And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
NOTE and of KEY importance of knowing the "TRUE GOD", The Almighty God & Father and THE Spirit is dwelling IN you in these two verses, same writer and he
"interchanges" the Spirit and God
= Meaning, "they are" One in the "SAME"!
One in the same as ONE Almighty God and Father as IN ONE apple.
Eph 4:4 - here is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
If you lie to this one Spirit, you lie to The Almighty God and Father = They ARE "ONE".
House - What house was Jesus to build for The Almighty God and Father -
Isa 28:16 - Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, (The Almighty God and Father)
Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
"WE" are to build onto that Corner Stone the
Mortar = 1 Peter 1:23 - Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
John 3:5 - Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jesus speaking The Words of Life of the God and Fathers says, "they" are Spirit and life.
Meaning = Spirit & Word are one in the same from Almighty God and Father, born of the Word of God and his Spirit = the same thing.
The Mortar being, The Word, Words of God.
Jesus was sent (Baptism timing) to "finish" the God & Fathers works = It had already commenced.
They had the Tree, were cut off from it (Word of Eternal Life), Jesus was to become the new House and Door.
God draws us by His Word of Life, only way to the Door and if not through this Door, you cannot come to the God & Father.
Which is, which was and which is to become "so" The Almighty God and Father can be all in all.
We are to become part of the new House, Temple = For Who = The Almighty God and Father, there will be no need for the sun or the moon as God will lighten it (Power) and Jesus will be the light thereof!
Where Jesus hands all back to the God & Father and "he" as us, will be subject to Him.
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Greek Heb 1:1-2 - At many times in many ways, long ago, the God, has spoken to the fathers, in the prophets; in last the days these, spoke to us in Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, because of, for the sake of whom "also" he made the worlds,
Neh 9:6 - Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
Psa 33:6 - By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
The Word of Life and now Words of Eternal life!
Isa 55:8 - So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
John 8:42 - Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me.
Tonio says = Wotsup, In Isaiah we have the Word goes forth from God and it was sent.
In John we have Jesus who came forth from God and was sent
Came forth, out from =
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void,
Luke 1:28, 32, 35 - And the angel came in unto her, (God's messenger) and
said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void,
shall be called = Matt 3:17 - And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Jesus uses both terms, came forth and out from = word of God, the Mystery from within, His plan as in, Jesus being pre-slain, via the Angel to Mary, then the Spirit of the Most high, The Almighty God and Father, took care of the rest, so came forth, out from, the mind and plans of God.
Eph 3:9 - And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things.
Gal 4:4 - But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Now right here, it is referring to when Jesus was sent into the world =
Baptism timing.
Deu 18:18 - I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Luke 2:40 & 52 - And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
So the coming forth, out from, is more to do with the Mary aspect and the sent is after Baptism.
Simplicity "IN" Jesus = "WE" have "NO" right to assume, get creative, inventive, and create anything "other" than what's IS "clearly" in our "face" here.
No hint "thus far" of "any" pre-existence of Jesus "other than" in the mind and plans of God, from way, way, back = NONE!
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1 Cor 15:47
The first man is of earth, of dust; the second man is of heaven.
Wotsup, this verse says that he first man Adam was from earth but the second man from heaven is Jesus
SECOND "MAN" - Paying attention here, second "man" = Man means Man!
However, this one is Not of the earth, suggesting, meaning that it was NOT even the egg of Mary, but The Almighty God and Father of him, hence still fitting with, He would come out of the Bowels of Davids Seed.
"WE" have zero verses stating, or indicating, a pre-existing Jesus was some how transferred to Mary = Zero!
Neither that his memory or brain was emptied.
Jesus received the Spirit/Word, Life within himself, which was in fact, the God & Father (Acts 2:22) doing the miracles "through" Jesus via His Spirit, the Holy Spirit.
Jesus could have pranced around like king kong, done his own will, and it is "that" from which he emptied himself of and humbled himself as man.
To have the Spirit/Word without measure means = He was the Express Image of the God and Father, as all that come forth from him, was "as" the God & Father, Hence Jesus saying, if you have seen me, you have seen my Father.
So Jesus, although Man, was of deity, divine and as the Greek shows, He has Now seen the God & Father "because" he is now in his Bosom, right-hand side of The God and Father exalted and now has the tile, "Only" Begotten God, but not The Almighty God and Father of Lights. John 1:18.
Jesus was given the "name" The Word "of" God, named "after" The God & Father "who" is The Word.
God gives names that represent, mean, the role for which he had planned for them.
The name doesn't make Jesus the actual words of God and neither does it make him The Word, from which and how Jesus came into being.
God is well pleased with him and likewise, so am "I".
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Jesus, the Word that came forth from the Father and was sent to accomplish the will of God.
The Word of God above, does NOT support "your" words here.
Jesus, came forth, out from God, via God's, Word or Life and Spirit, and "then" after him being raised and let by God and received the Spirit/Word without measure, He then was sent into the world, to "BRING" The Word.
SENT, for one example as there are more, look at John 17:18.
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PS. Don't get hoodwinked by people misusing OT verses the likes of, there be but one God and none else or God shares his Glory with no one else, a verse or two along says the likes of - A NEW, things to change, hence all those types of verses answered.
Jesus in a few place in the NT, is ref to as God, "but" Not his and our Almighty God and Father.
There now art in Heaven Two and separate ID's, THE FATHER who is The Word, The Holy Spirit and the True Light.
Jesus who has His own Spirit, not The Holy Spirit as there is But one, and through this ONE, as he promised, He and the Father will come to us, lead us and teach us 1 John 2:27.
Best of luck!
