Hi Tonio,
Thanks for having ago at addressing the verses I provided, it is longish, but the points you make, for whole truth, are not short answers and the is much, much more support than what I have shown here.
I notice you didn't place the verses up that I posted and address them with counter verses, had you done so, many of your points here would have been answered or they would have determined who your points should be understood as in, scripture interprets scripture.
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Hi Wotsup,
Have you not heard that the ONE God is everywhere
Whenever you are moved by the Holy Spirit that is within you.
You can pray the Our Father to God in heaven, just as the Word , Jesus instructed us while on earth
Ps 139:7-8
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
I know full well our One Almighty God and Father via "His" ONE Spirit, "The" Holy Spirit can be everywhere.
Notice the word "thy" = 1 as in 1 apple, singular and not to mention "thou"
Now through this one Spirit of The Almighty God and Father, Jesus "now" can come to us as well.
We have NO verses even hinting at, "a" god the holy spirit dwells in us = Zero.
So your address here does Not address, the fact, when Jesus was praying to the God & Father, he must have been praying to a 2/3's of
"your" one God, no question about it and I'm sorry, no tongue twisting can get around this fact.
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Putting aside the "assumption, adding" to the ours and US, no where in the OT do we have a pre-existent Jesus.
The OT DOES interpret the NT = Explain that?
Actually Wotsup, I see it the other way round with the NT interpreting the OT
The NT fulfils prophecies of the OT
The NT reveals mysteries of the OT
Coming up, we will let the Boss answer that one, Jesus, but in the meantime, we need to address a simple matter and that is, Jesus could not have spoken in past times, ruling him out as being The Word.
Heb 1;1-2 - God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by in his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by because of, for the sake of
whom also he made the worlds;
Do you see right here Tonio, The One God speaking in past times and now, The same One God in LAST days only, speaking through the Son. (2/3's of a God through the Son?)
Please explain, WHAT are you not seeing about Last days, do you Not believe it.
How can we possibly say, Jesus spoke prior?
Jesus himself Never said he did, is he not the example we need to follow?
But lets see the words from the horses mouth as to which interprets which;
John 5:39 - (Jesus speaking)
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
What are just some of those;
Deu 18:18 - I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Again, confirmation that Jesus cannot be the Word.
2 Sam 7:12-14 - And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
So the above goes against what you say, Jesus repeatedly refers to the OT and virtually says, look you guys, the eternal life speaking of me was known or should be known, from way back.
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I will address you last point here as it's part the answers are in the above.
Wotsup,
Jesus the only begotten Son of God has always been the only begotten God who spoke through the Holy Spirit to the prophets
Jesus is the Son of God and son of man
He is both God and man
Based on the Bible, not your word or mine, the only thing you have right here is, Son of God & Son of man.
Begotten = Comes from Begat/Beget = The definition of begat means you had offspring.
An example of begat is a woman who gave birth to two children.
Begat, commonly spelled as beget, refers to an event, action or thing that caused something else to happen.
So here we have The Almighty God & Father who says, I will be a Father to him and he will be a Son to me.
Mary was told, He will be called the Son of God.
Psa 2:7 a future prophesy -
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Mark 1:11 - And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 1:18 Greek - God no one has seen ever yet; only begotten God, the one being into-unto the bosom of the Father, he has made him known. (He is not The Almighty God & Father).
Note: There is no hint or suggestion that, Jesus has literally seen God prior to going to him, just that he has made him known.
So we have the stages, 1. He will be a Son, 2. He is a Son, 3. a begotten Son to being exalted with the Father, his right hand side to begotten God.
It all "clearly" points to as foretold in the OT, no way can we take from this evidence and say he was always a begotten Son and begotten God.
Not to mention - Begotten means there was a time when he wasn't.
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Psa 119:105 Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet, and a Light unto my path
This is the Almighty God and Fathers word who is the Father of lights, Jesus was the first child hence "He" says;
John 12:46 - I am come "a" light into the world.
Why, how, for one he came to "FINISH" the Almighty God & Fathers works and that was to bring the words of eternal life of the Fathers. Now as you have shown, God's word is Light, Jesus "received" the Father word, hence he became a light, child of 1 James 1:17. 1 John 1:5 Jesus's God is Light, whom Jesus is now dwelling in.
Rev 22:23
And the city
hath no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine upon it: for
the glory of :God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the lamp thereof
WHOLE Truth:
Rev 21:23 - And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it:
for the glory of God did lighten it > (The True Light) and the Lamb is the light
thereof . (Hence Jesus saying, I am come "a" light).
Rev 22:5 - And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun;
for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Wotsup, Jesus is the lamp
He is the Word, a lamp unto your feet and a light unto your path = The Almighty God and Father "of" Lights James 1:17.
So you have provided only half truths he Tonio.
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Wotsup, I have shown you that before but you chose to ignore it
Here is another one showing a pre existent Christ that you also ignored
Acts 3:18
King James Bible
But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled
Heb 1:1 -
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Ex - From OT = The Spirit of the LORD said unto me, the Word of the LORD said unto me = no messenger, no angel but The Almighty God & Father (THE WORD) Spoke as HIS Word is also Spirit.
and
1Pet 1:11
King James Bible
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Wotsup the first passage states that God spoke to the prophets about the sufferings of Christ
but in the second passage states that it was actually Jesus
Now Tonio, because of what the "numerous" other verses say, especially OT, I spent around 4 or more hrs alone, just on this verse from the Greek and older Greek and searching the "actual" Greek words, their lingo, and the Greeks meanings, not mine but Greek, so I will give you the basics, and I noted, that after I had done this, I checked the NWT, out of curiosity and it would seem, they are relatively on the same page.
Why you might ask so long, it's not easy but more importantly, I did not want to get it wrong.
1 Peter 1:11 Old Greek - Searching into or of what season/time, of the hidden mystery in Spirit, Messiah one testified before hand a child/descendant anointed one suffering and ???? after this, glory, the unspoken manifestation of God.
(???? couldn't find it's meaning).
After I had gone through this challenge, I realized it had a familiar theme to it as in the following;
Eph 3:9 - And to make all
men see what
is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been
hid in God, who created all things.
So clearly the Spirit in 1:11 is in the context, they were effectively in the Spirit, or revealed in, of the Almighty God and Father, the Holy Spirit.
They were all on hope, there fuel for life was based on that Rock that followed well after they died.
It also aligns perfectly with all the OT prophesies and passages.
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Wotsup,
Jesus the only begotten Son of God has always been the only begotten God who spoke through the Holy Spirit to the prophets
Jesus is the Son of God and son of man
He is both God and man
Based on the Bible, not your word or mine, the only thing you have right he is, Son of God & Son of man.
