Starbust,I enjoy and appreciate your scientific insight. Like BB...

Starbust,
I enjoy and appreciate your scientific insight. Like BB you are clearly well equipped to argue the science.However I suggest that the main debate has moved from the impenertrable and irreconcilable science to the political.

I believe the AGW lobby has suffered, and resents, a loss of its presumed right of absolute belief. Enough legitimate and substantial doubt has been demonstrated that perhaps the world isn't warming, if it is perhaps it is natural, if it is man made perhaps we can't stop it, if we can perhaps the cost is too high and if we should the means is questionable.

The debate could go until the Pope and the Buddists reach a compromise.

You imply that the governments policy is harmless hypocritical grandstanding but that it has no real effect because it will never be implemented. I disagree, this is serious now.

I agree that there is a possibility that no treaty will be agreed (like Doha) because of arguments about the details. However there is a possibility of a treaty being agreed (like Kyoto) which only binds some countries.

If an agreement which only binds some including us is made we might be the largest loser. With our proximatey to excluded countries, high reliance on exported minerals, no nuclear power and low proportion of hydro power.

I know that the governments stance is already having an effect on the investment decisions of large international mineral houses. Capital is being allocated to countries which welcome heavy energy intensive industry. Australia once welcomed (even demanded) secondary processing of minerals. When making these long term decisions one needs to consider not only the current law but the attitude of lawmakers.

The impediments to establishing a heavy chemical or mineral plant in Australia are now formidable. The permiting of such a plant is a long and risky process. Sometimes the difficulty is outweighed by the benefit of proximatey of ore source.

It seems Australia's future industries of choice will have to be environmentally friedly. Eco tourism, organic GM free foods, service industries and a financial hub.

I think the government (and Turnbull's) stance is already having a real effect.

Bacci