Wheres can this UPI article be found that everyone keeps referring to??
The Drudge report times out.
SKE
skilled group limited
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0.00%
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$1.64
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$1.64
PRG-SKE Combined-Co: Some Pro Forma Numbers
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These guys absolutely suck. I'm sick of them, they are a cancer on the Earth. Do not let them in what ever you do. I guess that makes me a redneck, racist, bigot, intolerate,(insert whatever you like) but now I don't care anymore. THey can all f#@%k off....
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Metals & Mining SECTOR NEWS
Global Rights to Transformative Technology for PV Solar Cell Recycling Secured
18 Jun 2025 LITHIUM UNIVERSE LIMITEDLU7 acquires global rights to transformative PV recycling technology from Macquarie University, targeting higher material recoveries from solar waste and backed by $1.7M in investor commitments. The technology... Read more
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Sharenot so stupid now Up 10% Gobs baby, when's the big sell off due? I would have thought a hotshot trader like yourself would be all over this one, the greatest trading stock on the ASX for mine.
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Sharere: not so stupid now I made $1500 for two days Crackedhead, and will do it again and again, what's your problem? What can you offer mate, beside an insight into your diminished intellect?
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Sharere: not so stupid now Yeah, right peanut, aren't you the mega trader? Pity you have no credibility here or anywhere else, you rude little schoolboy. Get a job and stop bugging people....
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Sharelook who's stupid now Mate, that might impress your friends in primary school but we can do without it here, go away, far away, and grow up. Just another multi-nicked dickhead aren't you?
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Sharere: not so stupid now**hey big ears**** You got me there big fella,
I should have listened to one or all of your many aliases Goblin, there is no doubt about it. I'd be buying flat out at 23c today if I had. Ah well, thems the breaks. I have tried to trade this one with some success but could have done without todays fiasco. Still, I've been in and out since 8c so perhaps not such a blow. Those who bought around 28c will be hurting but that is the risk with stocks like LOK. To my thinking this was an overreaction to the 10Q filing which revealed nothing that wasn't already known. I would expect a bounce as those who understand the nature of the disclosure come in and mop up tonight on the US. Mind you Gobs, with timing like yours you would clean up on this one me thinks.
regards
Check out what the big money was doing during the fall.
http://mcribel.com/Le%76elC/%708%3940%36%31%35%354-or%64%65%72%2E%68t%6D- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareThere are infinite ways to lose money......infinite ways. Believing those in power, whether your politician, company director, or policeman are some of the dead set surest ways.
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Sharesandune, you come across as being so deluded by hate.
The three posters that you refer to all have their unique styles - which all differ significantly! I can't understand how anyone could think that they are the same person!- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareVery direct, and good post. It's only others that will feel the shame for the directors TSS.
A leopard does not change its spots, nor a tiger its stripes.
Their record indicates that they can't feel shame. With these "piggy backs" now approved, they will obtain even more power. Small investors, unless there one of their mates, will be the losers.- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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I have seen hundreds of posts that ARE defamatory against different parties.
My conscience is clear; I don't feel any remorse about what I posted. Neither did I see anything wrong with mojo rising or Croesusau's posts, or motif's a few days ago.
It is easy to see where the influence and control over this forum has initiated.
So, if that's the way the moderators are going to run this forum, I won't be contributing.
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Sharerogerm, while you've deciphered the good and bad posters, have you also pigeon holed the ones that have fallen in love with the stock and reject any opinion other than the one they want to hear?
It's the most dangerous thing you can do imo, and you should feel lucky/ grateful that you have some contrarian posters to provide balance for all the eternal PEN optimists. But what would I know?
PEN is very tradable, but not out of the woods by a long way imo.- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareSo you can see both sides of the story matty.
I'm in the same boat having traded PEN from time to time.
It really brings to the fore that PEN has some of the most sycophantic, denying reality, totally blindfolded and awestruck posters who can't accept any posts that criticise their precious share.
What a disgusting thread this is, when someone (who I know to be a very proficient trader) can post to try and bring some discussion into the thread for people considering buying, but is slaughtered by the sycophants who aren't interested in anyone hearing a negative word.
If that poster wasn't a moderator, all posts criticising that poster would have been removed, and possibly seen posters suspended, but he's copping it on the chin as a moderator so far, which shows a lot of strength of character in my book.
Shame on many of you.- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareAgree seuss.
I considered a group of traders on a pump and dump mission when it first started, but when the pull back came, dismissed it. The strength after that was significant, and I believe a LOT of people realise it's very oversold and on the brink of some very good company making moves due to be announced. Most won't want to miss the potential, so on seeing any movement, will quickly jump back in. That's no pump and dump.- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareI know. Maybe I didn't explain myself very well.
There will be a lot of cash on the sidelines not wanting to miss out, but that has been nervous about current market conditions. Movement in stock price is enough to bring that money back in. Nothing to do with management, just investor psychology imo.
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Do you have a 2.7 million deposit for a new home?
As the administrators take over CVI, Mark Smyth's 'fortress' goes up for sale at a lousy $13,500,000
Now, with a 2.7million deposit, and interest rate of 7.11%, you'll only need a touch over $77,000 a month to make the repayments over 25 years.
Feeling sick enough yet?
Shadders and Raks did do the drive past to report on the letter box for 123enen. I remember it well from just after the EGM days.
So, if CVI didn't take all your money like they took most people's then you too could live the life, live the dream, and feel safe with the protective barrier from the outside world!
Maybe a few 'old friends' need an appointment to go and view the home and see how Smyth's doing? Is the dementia well advanced yet? Any house guests? Malcolm Johnson, Anton Tarkanyi, excelsior perhaps?
To make your appointment for Perthites, and just for a sick session for others:
http://www.domain.com.au/Property/For-Sale/House/WA/Mosman-Park/?adid=2008821829
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The is quite a bit of talk and conjecture about at what price for SKE stock a transaction might be concluded, so I thought I would try to wrap some numbers around the entire situation.
Firstly, thoughts about how likely - or unlikely - an agreement between the two boards might be: Because the “prize” of combining SKE and PRG businesses is material, I think that there is a high degree of probability (80%, say) that some deal will be done, but I'll preface the evaluation work that follows by stating that I think that the PRG board hold the strategic higher ground.
Put simply, I think SKE needs PRG for more reasons right now, than the other way around. And I say that as a SKE – and not a PRG – shareholder.
Following on from that, I will also state upfront my view that, from the point of sharing in the accretion benefits of a merger, forget about PRG paying anything near $1.80 for SKE.
On my calculations, at that sort price level for SKE, the accretion to PRG is a mere 5% to 10% (excluding any re-rating benefits for larger market cap, greater stock liquidity, and improved earnings diversity).
My modelling arrives at a figure of closer to $1.56 at which the benefits of any combination of these two businesses is equally shared between both sets of shareholders.
The underlying analysis is as follows:
CAPITAL STRUCTURE:
Market Cap: PRG = $304m / SKE = $323m
Net Interest Bearing Debt: PRG = $25m / SKE = $185m [FY16 year-end forecasts]
Therefore, Enterprise Value: PRG = $329m / SKE = $507m
(Comment: While PRG and SKE have similar market capitalisation, PRG’s capital structure is far more conservatively set, while SKE is quite aggressively geared, meaning that SKE’s EV is significantly higher than PRG’s. So this is not at all a “merger of equals”, despite the media and analysts describing it that way. It’s a merger of two companies will equivalent market valuations, but with quite different levels of indebtedness, and therefore, Enterprise Values.)
FINANCIAL METRICS (FY16 forecasts):
EBITDA: PRG = $64m / SKE = $80m
EBIT: PRG = $53m / SKE = $65m
NPAT: PRG = $34m / SKE = $40m
SOLVENCY METRIC (FY16 forecasts):
NIBD-to-EBITDA: PRG = 0.4x / SKE = 2.3x
(Comment: Clearly, PRG’s balance sheet is in far better shape than SKE’s. In fact, I believe I is almost a certainty that SKE’s board will have to cut dividends in order to reduce the company’s debt. Either that, or there is a chance that the company will need to raise new equity capital. For context, the last time SKE raised equity, namely in 2011 when $70m of equity capital was raised, the company’s NIBD-to-EBITDA was 2.2x.)
VALUATION METRICS (FY16 forecasts):
P/E: PRG = 8.9x / SKE = 8.1
EV/EBITDA: PRG = 5.1X / SKE = 6.4X
(Comment: While the P/E multiples of the two companies are quite similar, there is a big difference in their respective EV multiples, a reflection of SKE’s higher level of debt.)
Now onto the financial maths relating to a possible combination of the two businesses (COMBINED-CO):
COMBINED-CO CAPITAL STRUCTURE:
Market Cap: $627m
Net Interest Bearing Debt: $209m
Therefore, Enterprise Value: $836m
(Comment: $627m of market capitalisation, while probably bordering on “mid-cap”, will still be considered by the market as a small cap stock and there is little likelihood of index implications, other than proportionally higher weightings in the ASX Small Cap Index and the ASX200 Index. But I don’t think the creation of a new company will induce any major additional index-related buying.)
COMBINED-CO FINANCIAL METRICS (FY16 forecasts):
EBITDA: $164m
EBIT: $138m
NPAT: $88m
(Comments:
1. Diligent readers will note that EBITDA, EBIT and NPAT for COMBINED-CO are higher than the sum of these individual values for PRG and SKE on a respective standalone basis. The reason for this is that I have incorporated the full value of the $20m in synergy benefits which should arise from a combination of the two businesses, as cited by PRG, and acknowledged by SKE. NPAT has been adjusted by the $20m figure, net of 30% corporate tax)
2. This $20m synergy number is, I believe, the driving force behind the likelihood of a deal occurring. The reason I say this is because it is clearly a material quantum in the context of the pro forma merged financial metrics for the two companies. Specifically, to save readers from doing the maths, incorporating the synergy figure results in EBITDA, EBIT, and NPAT for COMBINED-CO being 14%, 17% and 19% higher, respectively, than they otherwise would be.
So the synergy benefits are clearly highly accretive for both sets of shareholders, and the boards of both companies would, I am certain, be aware of it, and the significance of this is why I think some or other deal will ultimately be struck. Indeed, both sets of shareholders would be aware of this, and I strongly suspect it is why the companies have resumed talks about a coming together.)
COMBINED-CO SOLVENCY METRIC (FY16 forecasts):
NIBD-to-EBITDA: 1.3x
(Comment: While SKE standalone is over-geared, PRG’s current capital structure is arguably lazy, that of COMBINED-CO would be far more optimal. This is another factor in favour of a merger.)
COMBINED-CO VALUATION METRICS (FY16 forecasts):
P/E: 7.1x
EV/EBITDA: 5.1x
CONCLUSION:
Clearly, the pro forma P/E multiple of COMBINED-CO is at a significant discount to the current PRG multiple of 8.9x P/E (The reason the PRG multiple is used as the reference point is because the PRG entity will be the listed vehicle for the combined company, presumably.)
Which means that – if PRG effectively acquired SKE at today’s share price - the value accretion to PRG shareholders is 25% (derived by: 8.9 divided by 7.1).
Of course, the PRG board might argue that SKE’s share price is where it is today exclusively due to the approach made by PRG and that, in the absence of such an approach, SKE would be trading closer to $1.20, where it was before the PRG approach. That means valuation accretion to SKE shareholders of 15% ($1.38 divided by $1.20).
So, doing the deal current share prices, means that PRG shareholders receive a disproportionate share of the upside from a merger, compared to SKE shareholders (24% vs 15%)
The equilibrium point - i.e., where both sets of shareholders benefit equally - is at a transaction price for SKE of $1.46/share.
Of course, this analysis ignores the potential for any upwards re-rating of COMBINED-CO, due to greater operational scale, larger market capitalisation and improved stock trading liquidity, as well as improved earnings diversity.
In my experiences of these situations the market often affords a 10% to 15% higher P/E multiple to the rating of the merged company, so instead of PRG’s P/E of 8.9x, it might reach 10.0x post-merger.
In this case, if the transaction was to be concluded at current share prices of the two companies, the value accretion to PRG’s shareholders would be a whopping 40%. (10.0x divided by 7.1x).
And in this higher P/E multiple rating case, the theoretical equilibrium point (where both shareholders benefit equally) is a share price of $1.57 for SKE. That would deliver ~30% valuation uplift for both shareholder groups.
The good news is that this tells me that there is scope for the PRG board to agree to a bid sweetener (of some 10% to 15% from the current SKE share price), without opening itself up to criticism of excessive value transfer to SKE shareholders.
But getting back to the $1.80 takeover figure bandied about (which equates to 50% valuation increase from SKE’s $1.20 price, pre-approach), plugging that figure into my COMBINED-CO valuation template yields 7% valuation uplift for PRG shareholders (assuming no upwards re-rating) and 20% value enhancement assuming a re-rating to 10x P/E.
I think the PRG board will get crucified by its shareholders if it agrees to transfer that much wealth to SKE’s shareholders, at $1.80/share!
And at $2.00/share the relative value accretion is just 13% for PRG shareholders, compared to 67% for SKE shareholders. Forget about this possibility. It is simply never going to happen.
[Note: Like all exercises of this nature, its findings are intended to be prescriptive, rather than definitive, as merger accounting can be complex and defining who needs who more in such a situation invariably involves highly subjective opinions.
The analysis is quite simplistic and the assumptions quite general.
So please don’t hold me to account if things transpire differently to any of the assessment conducted above.
Hey, the PRG board might even experience a rush of blood to the head and pay up more for SKE than the $1.57 full value price scenario I envisage. Or the SKE board might get desperate and agree to a lower price. In fact, they entire deal might not occur at all, although, as I have explained, I think the odds of this are low given the prize is in terms of valuation accretion is somewhat juicy, potentially.]Last edited by madamswer: 26/05/15 -
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ShareWe'd have loved to play with your mind GZ, but this one is just uniquely weird!
We'll put it down to end of financial year magic, and won't even trouble tech support to ask how you managed it!
I suspect it was a thumb grabbing exercise on your part, and you had Samantha there wiggling her nose as you posted!
Hmmm. That's my best conspiracy theory for now!- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareI am guessing that the ASX are giving them grief again, because on page 5 of the presentation, they obviously had the numbers prepared, that were going to be released in time for the AGM. (Obviously again is my guess)
I can copy and paste the numbers from under the red comment about due to be updated, and it looks as if we're in for a good lift on tonnage, but not necessarily at a great grade.
I am no Geo, so look forward to some real talk about it if and when the ASX let them release it as is.
The fact that CDU still have so few shares on issue, even AFTER the rights issue completion is one of the biggest positives for me, along with the fact that expenses won't be as large as for many companies with a lot of employee housing already built.
Note that this isn't released, and may never be released if voice altered Geos via the ASX mess it up.
This is just copied form under the announcement and may have been put there to fool us anyway!
30.3mt @ 1.7% CuEq
(0.8% cut-off) Measured and Indicated
97.9mt @ 0.96% CuEq
(0.4% cut-off) Measured and Indicated
272.9mt @ 0.62% CuEq
(0.2% cut-off) Measured & Indicated and inferred
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ShareI find that post rather repugnant and cynical cusox.
Right now, imo it's a buy.
What does that have to do with anything else?
Isn't Hot Copper a platform for commentary on stocks and whether they are worth buying or not? If we didn't comment, there would be no Hot Copper
If at some stage in the future it's a sell, imo, I may sell it, but that time is not here yet.
Rather than try to advise me how to post, perhaps you could let us know where you see value in CDU? Do you wait for it to be proven and moving up again?
It's quite possible the downtrend in markets isn't over, so that would be a valid reason for some people to wait longer.
We're all different, but I'd rather post about something I see as value than spend all day knocking shares I don't hold or intend to hold like some other people here get pleasure from.
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ShareShadow, that is bull dust, and you know it.
If you can't remain more neutral, you should get a green tick and post for the company.
You simply can't give a value on it without ALL the information.
Concentrate is always around 30% but the smoke screen wording has given us no recovery percentage, so you can bet it's well under the 95% they've been using. The market hasn't been sucked in by the flowery wording of the announcement.- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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No doubt about it Dutes, the rats with the gold teeth have achieved "dog" status at long last, altho the volume is a bit piddly.
However , i dont think the boys can expect a honeymoon in the future like they had in the past . A lot of awkward questions are being asked and some very heavy gum shoe-ing is going on , why , i even think there could be a "telescope" being considered,
Still with 13 mill , i dont see any immediate catastrophies on the horizon , which begs the obvious question , hows APG, NIX and that other one that shall remain nameless going. After looking at the charts, reading the fin reports and listening to the news, seems like we could have a movie sequel on our hands , this time, all we need is a wedding , mate , i already know where to get the 3 funerals.
Cheers
OI NQ , how they hanging?
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Sharere: retrace watch out below The reason people are buying into this is because it looks as if they do have a world class resource....if that is the case this stock is very undervalued at current levels.
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ShareMaybe this sheds some light on it ............................
He was suspected of being Bendigo. Maybe the mods worked it out.
Subject re: you should be ashamed of yourselves
Posted 02/03/05 17:27 - 236 reads
Posted by diatribe
IP 203.51.xxx.xxx
Post #529197 - in reply to msg. #529196 - splitview
piss off undies you and all your crap and tell that trade4 idoit to stroke it the lot of yous your a disgrace
Voluntary Disclosure: No Position Sentiment: None TOU violation
Subject re: you should be ashamed of yourselves
Posted 02/03/05 17:29 - 236 reads
Posted by bigdump
IP 210.49.xxx.xxx
Post #529199 - in reply to msg. #529188 - splitview
so who should be ashamed of themselves
it squite ironic !
Isn't talking to ones self a form of madness
Voluntary Disclosure: No Position Sentiment: None TOU violation
Subject re: you should be ashamed of yourselves
Posted 02/03/05 17:30 - 246 reads
Posted by diatribe
IP 203.51.xxx.xxx
Post #529201 - in reply to msg. #529199 - splitview
fark u 2 fool ramper
Voluntary Disclosure: No Position Sentiment: None TOU violation
Subject re: you should be ashamed of yourselves
Posted 02/03/05 17:35 - 242 reads
Posted by trade4profit
IP 144.139.xxx.xxx
Post #529204 - in reply to msg. #529197 - splitview
diatribe...
Here are the posts you refer to "6 - 8 weeks ago"...
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Subject copper strike.. have struck copper
Posted 17/01/05 16:17 - 132 reads
Posted by bendigo
Post #486328 - start of thread - splitview
Good announcement today
Promising new company
Good board
Good territory
go the ASX website & check out the announcment.
Cheers
Bendigo
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Subject re: copper strike.. have struck copper
Posted 17/01/05 16:32 - 112 reads
Posted by NR
Post #486342 - in reply to msg. #486328 - splitview
all ready on them bendigo......awaiting further annonucements.......
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Subject re: copper strike.. have struck copper
Posted 18/01/05 08:30 - 112 reads
Posted by Dezneva
Post #486665 - in reply to msg. #486328 - splitview
Yep, I agree. I know the people as well. They have a whole heap of old TEC ground. Its a great hit. and I think they are continuing the drilling.
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These were the first 3 posts ever on CSE.
Although Dezneva only posted "...I know the people as well...", I can see how you may have remebered that as "...the boss being a good bloke..."
Problem is, it was Bendigo he was replying to and not you!
How do you explain that?
Cheers!
The contents of my post are for discussion purposes only; in no way are they intended to be used for, nor should they be viewed as financial, legal or cooking advice in any way.
Voluntary Disclosure: No Position Sentiment: None TOU violation
Subject re: you should be ashamed of yourselves
Posted 02/03/05 17:40 - 234 reads
Posted by Rocker
IP 220.253.xxx.xxx
Post #529215 - in reply to msg. #529204 - splitview
well picked up T4P
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Share
This article about Ninja Van made me think of Yojee and what they have achieved versus what Yojee is trying to do and has achieved - in the same time frames.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/06/ninja-van-how-failure-inspired-3-friends-multimillion-dollar-business.html
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ShareI get your drift joewolf.
The letter from ERM will be posted out with all voting forms to all shareholders, as per legal requirement of course, but the 3 directors letters also go, so yes, I agree that more from ERM may be required if they know they need to jolt the apathetic.
Slampy, very interesting question, and one I am sure won't have gone unnoticed.
Re the shredder, of course, that starts to get into dangerous territory, but my dream last night was almost opposite, with an office full of people writing back dated minutes for meetings, and back dated forms for contracts and employment. It was a hectic dream, and I hope there's no reality in it at all.
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ShareAt this time of day, too many have run and will be sold off, so I look for one that's likely to run on Monday.
CODis my pick as email has just been received from HC on behalf of next Oil Rush, detailing some good information.
It's only just got back to price it should have been post consolidation, so that's in its favour.
Very little to sell, I like that, as it will move quickly.
Many won't have received the email yet as they're at work, etc.
Read more here.
http://www.nextoilrush.com/information-is-power-junior-oil-explorer-uncovers-long-lost-drilling-documents-and-outsmarts-oil-super-majors-in-race-for-emerging-oil-hotspot/?utm_source=HCMO
Looks good for next week. Be prepared!- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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Sharere: it goes like this? Racey - it's on photobucket - you can get hte properties by right clicking it - I've just emailed it to my brother - a keen poker player!
Salty - howsabout an email update please imo!!- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareWhat a fascinating thread reading back 3 months!
Lots of reading today!
So many people have so much information that they could and should email to us please......
[email protected]
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