"I was not linking incest and dictatorship I was referring to god not being bound by his own principles that he expects others to follow that was my point."
Ok.
"It is interesting that you don't see a problem with incest and yet you defend god and his principles, boy isn't the World changing and its values."
How so?
I'm pretty sure I mentioned WHY I didn't think it was a 'moral issue', genetic problems aside.
"I won't ask you anymore on the matter for fear that you may incriminate yourself."
:)
Nothing to worry about there, I was just cogitating on the issue as you raised it.
"Its interesting that you brought up "You are of your father the devil and you seek to do his will." speaking of leaders.
The JW's claim that the ruler of this world is as you say Satan and that the reason all Humans are suffering and Die is due to what they call the Universal Sovereignty Issue which is God's right to Rule over us and why faithful people serve him as brought out in the Book of Job as opposed to using free will to be independent from God which happen in Eden by eating the forbidden Fruit.
My issue which could not be satisfactorily answered by them {JW's) was that wouldn't it be Satan helping Humans to succeed independently from God and would it not be God who is hindering and thwarting Humans successful independence of God as for Humans to be successful it would make god wrong and look like a fool?"
Wow, there's a lot in those 2 paragraphs and I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from. I'll try to break it down point by point, let me know if I misunderstand anything.
1) Satan is the current ruler of the Earth.
Sure, I think the Bible is quite clear on that point as well as observational evidence which backs that up.
2) "the reason all Humans are suffering and Die is due to what they call the Universal Sovereignty"
I had to look that up as I wasn't familiar with the doctrine.
From this site:
http://tinyurl.com/llpnhh8
"His “right to rule” became in question when Satan the Devil brought up the question in the Genesis Account of “why do humans and spirit creatures rely on God to live?”
This spiraled Humans into the chaos that is our history: War, famine, pestilence and natural disasters all leading to the ultimate fate of Death."
I would disagree with that point, that is not taught in the Bible at all. The Bible teaches that all of things are the result (ultimately) of our sin, which is in essence a turning away fro God, who IS life and peace to follow Satan (albeit usually without tacit admission or recognition of the fact), who is pain and death.
I've also noticed the penchant for JW's to give Satan WAY more credit and power than is actually due. I guess that takes the responsibility for their actions away from them?
"and why faithful people serve him as brought out in the Book of Job as opposed to using free will to be independent from God which happen in Eden by eating the forbidden Fruit."
I'm not sure I understand what you mean there. The book of Job details great suffering by one man (Job) and the various 'solutions' and justifications provided by his mates. Things to note in Job are:
1) Jobs innocence before God 2) Satan's complete lack of ability to do ANYTHING without God's permission. (Which kind of goes against their idea that Satan is the cause of all our problems)
As for free will (if we have it) then we can use it to follow God or to follow Satan, I'm not sure that there are any third options when you get right down to it. Of course many free-will decisions are of no regard to either, like what icecream flavour to eat or what sports team to go for, those kinds of things.
So you can you your free will to be independent from God which will of course have natural consequences that you can't escape or you can use it to walk WITH God, which will also have natural consequences but they will be much better as you will be aligning your thoughts and actions with the creator from whom all such natural laws emanate in the first place.
"My issue which could not be satisfactorily answered by them {JW's) was that wouldn't it be Satan helping Humans to succeed independently from God and would it not be God who is hindering and thwarting Humans successful independence of God as for Humans to be successful it would make god wrong and look like a fool?"
Yes I would agree that Satan does fill people full of lofty ideas about independence from God. BUT, I would disagree with second point that God would hinder your independence from him. For a couple of reasons, firstly, God does not want a bunch of blind unthinking followers, he wants you to follow him because you've seen the futility of everything other. You can only learn this by trying to live apart from him and learning from your mistakes. Or think a long the lines of your kids, do you want them to grow up into intelligent, healthy responsible adults capable of making their own decisions while at the same time including you in their lives. Or do want your kids be useless and dumbed-down, incapable of making any decisions in their lives without phoning you up every 5 minutes and asking you what to do?
God wants the former, Satan (and his world system)want the latter. IMO.
I'm not sure how human success would make God look like a fool?
