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Hi wotsupThere is no difference between the human spirit and the...

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kambiz999

4,474 Posts.

11

06/05/24

23:44

Post #: 73694073
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Originally posted by wotsup: ↑

"Spiritual death of the soul is not the same as physical death wotsup."

That is correct, that is why the physical death is not to concern you.
But the Spiritual, derived from the soul, the you, the package, is something you want to fear being killed (as in stolen out of you), that would be the 2nd death that the Bible speaks of.

We are in effect or are to be born twice, of your mother (water) and of the Spirit = God.
Jesus's answer following, as to how to be born twice.
John 3:5 - Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

John 6:63 - It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
1 Peter 1:23 - Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Luke ch 8 - Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Gen 2:7 - And Yehowah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
nephesh: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
Original Word: נֶפֶשׁ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: nephesh
Phonetic Spelling: (neh'-fesh)
Definition: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion

So this tells us what a soul is and what it incorporates and produces as a package.
It's very clear, man became a living soul and not man come alive and received a soul.

On the born again matter, your mind, storage bank brain, part of the living soul, brings you to this position, to the decision you make.
If the body is killed while clinging to this decision, belief, the soul aspect of you, derived from your whole soul package, ie brain memory etc, is not technically being killed, as you will be raised on the last day.
Hence, that is the soul aspect that I suggest you would want to fear being killed.
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" When in Ezekial it says the soul shall die, it is clearly not related in any way to the physical body (as you assert) because we are all sinners and our bodies are alive today. The condition of the soul is always immortal, but the "death of the soul" is not to be seen as the end of its existence."

" The condition of the soul is always immortal," -> Show me the money = the Bible verses.

We've seen that claim before Kam
Gen 3:4 - Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die".
Keep in mind, they, from what I gather began with eternal life.

And Yehowah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

" When in Ezekial it says the soul shall die, it is clearly not related in any way to the physical body (as you assert)"

I quoted Ez for the very purpose of your claim above -> "soul is always immortal" -> which Ez throws out the door.

" but the "death of the soul" is not to be seen as the end of its existence."

Now come on Kam, that is getting rather creative, soul dying, death, is meant to be understood as exactly that and that would be the 2nd death.
Not to mention, you're pushing the barrow that body and soul are different, and pulling on the verse that says, to fear the one that can kill the soul, which contradicts your statement here.
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"God saying "all souls are mine" implies it again is a spiritual reality"

1st up, he made man, living souls, we are the potters clay, and their his and also his in the sense, he is providing the breath of life, which he could remove any time as well as bring on the 2nd death.
Hence, it covers your 1st & 2nd births = dual.
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"God is not dust. God is a spirit, and so the soul returns to spirit as Ezekial states."

"Soul returns to spirit" -> Hmmm I would have to see that verse, as it's not in any that I have quoted to you and neither in Ecc.
I know of verses stating, that the spirit returns to God, but not souls?

When you say soul returns to spirit, is the spirit here referring to God?

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Hi wotsup

There is no difference between the human spirit and the human soul.
All creatures have a spirit, (Ecc 3:21) but the expression of spirit in the human is called the human soul because humans are endowed with all the attributes of God in finite degrees.

But only the spirit of man (called the human soul) goes to heaven. Look at Ecc 3:21 again.

The human soul/spirit dies when a Manifestation of God (such as Jesus) announces Himself and when the soul recognises and connects with the Manifestation of God, they are resurrected back to life. This is all a spiritual reality, not a fleshy reality related to the material body.

Your quotes John 3:5, John 6:63, 1 Peter 1:23, and Luke 8 clearly point to this reality.

When Matthew is warning us against death of the body and soul, this is what he is talking about. We must recognise Christ for our dead soul to be resurrected. There are those that kill our body. No problem according to Matthew, but if you are killed and your soul hasn't recognised Christ, then heaven help you.

This is what Baha'u'llah says of this Day.
"Be thou assured in thyself that verily, he who turns away from this Beauty has also turned away from the Messengers of the past and showeth pride towards God from all eternity to all eternity"

The immortality of the soul is always maintained but the death of the soul is related to recognition of the Manifestation of God. All Jews' souls were dead when Jesus came. The Pharisees and the Saducees......dead. But Paul went from soul death, to soul life. This is an example of how a soul can go from death to life. This proves the immortality of the soul. Your Gen 3:4 example is again a misinterpretation and is related to physical death of the body.

When you read Ezekial interpreting the soul as part of the body, then yes it becomes mortal. But your interpretation is incorrect wotsup. The human soul IS the human spirit which distinguishes itself from the animal spirit. We are not animals.

When I say soul returns to spirit, I'm saying that heaven is a SPIRITUAL reality, and as Ezekial says, the soul returns to God, it makes it clear that the soul is also a spiritual reality.

Kam
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