Russia Ukraine war, page-234169

  1. 23,104 Posts.
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    tangs, I know its difficult for you to differentiate
    between what is real (Real Politic) and what is
    morally right. (Ideology).

    That is evident from your binary position on this Ukrainian war.

    Just imagine Gallieo's predicament when he
    was convinced that the Sun was at the centre
    of our solar system (Eccentric) vs the Roman
    Church, the then regional Hedgemon, who thought that the Earth was at the centre.
    He was lambasted for being a "realist"

    And so it is with this war.

    While there is an Ideological argument as to why
    Russia did wrong in invading the Ukraine, there
    is also a counter argument that NATO's expansion further
    around the Black Sea threatened Russia's access to the
    Crimea (one of its important Russian ports) and as such
    critically threatened Russia's national security just as a Chinese armed
    military/naval base in Southern PNG would be a serious
    threat to our national security . #

    But of course Ideologues only see such aspects of Geopolitics
    from an arbitrary moral point of view (in this case the absolute
    right of a country to decide for itself) rather than from a power
    point of view ie: that which is possible and not possible.

    We have a rule of law within countries whith the domestic
    means of enforcing it but that stops at the State because there
    is no higher authority than the State (that is unless you believe
    in God and all that jazz)

    In the older days in Europe there was a to bridge that phantom gap
    by declaring the Devine Right of Kings.

    I realise that we have a UN and an ICC etc but these are
    voluntary organisations (IE ;The USA and others do not recognise the
    ICC) and of course the UN is a toothless tiger unable to act unless
    supported by a member(s) country volunteering armed forces.

    So to harp on about the "moral right" of a country, while
    comforting to some, does not adequately explain Geopolitics.

    Just ask the people of say Ireland who have been under
    British rule from 1169 until 1921 and of which 6 Counties
    are still under British rule was it a moral imperative or
    a military one that gained them the 26 Counties and the
    Good Friday Agreement (the pathway to reclaiming the remaining six)

    # IMO if PNG agreed to a Chinese Port/Military Base in southern PNG
    we would either:
    -Engineer a coup to replace that government & replace it with an Aus
    . friendly regime
    and if that were not possible by peaceful means we'd do a
    East Timor ..that is we'd send in the troops and rubbish
    PNG's right to democratically decide for itself.

    So in summary we have this Ukrainian war because
    of 2 conflicting principles:
    (a) a country's perceived right to decide for itself
    (b) that (a) threatens the perceived National Security of a more powerful neighbour

    By not recognising both (a) & (b) , IMO that's bigotry
    which leads to conflict and war.

    War is the problem...not the solution and IMO
    sooner or later a peaceful solution will be found
    based on Political Realism...not Ideology .




 
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