Russia Ukraine war

Originally posted by NoImSpartacus: ↑

This is part 1 of a 2 part response. I will post the rest shortly.

Pick oneMu... illegal and immoral.
I dont understand this, you'll have to explain.What's a Mu...?

Don't you consider murdering people for there land immoral and illegal?

YesI do. And that's why I support Russia in this war. Because I'm confident on theevidence that Russia DID NOT invade Ukraine to steal their land. Indeed,this is the lie the Neocons invented (and I believe you know it's a lie) to frightenthe Europeans and the USA/NATO allies to continue supporting the war that the Neoconsdeliberatly started.

So,let's start:-
(1)What is your evidence that Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022 to murder Ukranians"FOR THEIR LAND"? You keep repeating this mantra so you must be ableto set out that evidence in your sleep. So please do so now.

(2)Here's why I dont believe Russia invaded to steal Ukranina land:-

(i)Russia has continuously insisted that the EU/Ukraine honour the two Minskagreements, neither of which required Ukranian Territory to be handed over to Russia.If Russia's aim was to grab land it would not have pressed for the Minsk agreementsto continue to apply.

(ii)In the negotiations to end the war in March/April 2022 (which puppet BorisJohnson scuttled for the USA), there was no requirement by the Russians forUkraine to givge over territory and and upon the agreement being signed Russia agreedthat it would withdraw its troops from Ukraine. Again if grabbing land wasRussia's intention it would NOT have pressed for this peace deal.

(iii)Since 2008 Russia has repeatedly said that its problem is with NATO'sencirclement of Russia and that Ukraine and Georgia joining would be unacceptablebecause it threatens Russia's security too much. Even a schoolboy would understandthe reasonableness of Russia's concerns in this regard. Indeed in 2008 theEuropeans objected to the Americans putting Ukraine NATO membership on thetable and a multitude of American top level advisors did the same. ScottMorrison told China that if they dared to try and put a Chinese naval base inthe Solomons China would be crossing a red line. But despite all this youinsist that Russia invaded Ukraine to grab land and murder Ukranians.

Itsdifficult to escape the conclusion that either you're clueless about geopoliticsor you're not being truthful.

Expand

Norm needs an injection of truth and reality since your post is so far detached from the both of them.

Where is you evidence Norm? All you have is your Kremlin lies and propaganda parroted opinions. Not a single link, article or shrd of corroboration of the Kremlin lies and propaganda you parrot all over this forum and you cry at others about their evidenced posts. Good one buddy!

"(1)What is your evidence that Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022 to murder Ukranians"FOR THEIR LAND"?

The fact that Putin is murdering Ukrainians, over 130k war crimes have been recorded of which 12k involve civilian murders, and Putin has unilaterally declared that several oblasts of Ukraine are now annexed territory and belong to Russia.

Ergo, murdering Ukrainians for their land.

Clear enough for you buddy?

Here is the info on Putin declaring he is stealing more Ukrainian land:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_annexation_of_Donetsk,_Kherson,_Luhansk_and_Zaporizhzhia_oblasts#:~:text=On%2030%20September%202022%2C%20Russia,%2C%20Kherson%2C%20Luhansk%20and%20Zaporizhzhia.

Here is evidence of Putin murdering Ukrainians in various war crimes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_civilians_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#:~:text=The%20United%20Nations%20Human%20Rights,artillery%20shells%20and%20multiple%20launch

"(i)Russia has continuously insisted that the EU/Ukraine honour the two Minskagreements, neither of which required Ukranian Territory to be handed over to Russia"

Why were the Minsk agreements needed champion? Because Putin invaded Ukraine and broke two other agreements Russia had with Ukraine (Budapest Memorandum and the Friendship Treaty). Putin never honoured any of the Minsk conditions and Putin was the one to end the Minsk deals, saying "they no longer existed" when he announced annexation of two eastern oblasts of Ukraine and invaded Ukraine. You know, the samne annexation to steal Ukrainian territory...

Feel free to educate yourself on the topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#:~:text=Following%20that%20decision%2C%20on%2022,Ukraine%20on%2024%20February%202022.

"(ii)In the negotiations to end the war in March/April 2022 (which puppet BorisJohnson scuttled for the USA), there was no requirement by the Russians for Ukraine to givge over territory and and upon the agreement being signed Russia agreed that it would withdraw its troops from Ukraine."

This entire statement is completely untrue and nothing more than pure dishonesty in which you didn't even make the slightest attempt to connect your completely incorrect claim to the truth or reality.

Putin's surrender deal demanded the acceptance of loss of Ukrainian territory, loss of Crimea, and the establishment of two independent states in Eastern Ukraine, loss of these two states, and did not involve any stipulation that Russia would withdraw troops.

Putin with his surrender demand deal, still a massively long way from anything being agreed, attempted to put other non-starter conditions on Ukraine that were not going to be agreed to and the deal was scuttled in part because of the humiliation of Putin's forces and their failure to capture Kyiv as well as discovery of depraved Russian war crimes in Bucha.

Why lie so terribly when the truth and historical chronological order of what actually happened is available to all to read?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_negotiations_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#Russia

"(iii)Since 2008 Russia has repeatedly said that its problem is with NATO's encirclement of Russia and that Ukraine and Georgia joining would be unacceptable because it threatens Russia's security too much. "

Nato has been on Russia's border since its creation and has never attacked or invaded Russia. Nato was never going to attack or invade Russia. Ukraine has never invaded Russia. Ukraine was never going to invade Russia. Georgia has never invaded Russia. Georgia was never going to invade Russia.

There was no threat, there was only Putin's choice to launch an unjust and unprovoked war against both countries. To imply there was some Nato threat is just a blatant, obvious and easily debunked lie. If Nato was such a threat, Putin wouldn't move 80% of his forces from the Nato borders of Norway and FInland to send them to their deaths in Ukraine.

Ukraine was neutral/not in Nato in 2014, Putin invaded. Ukraine was still neutral/not in Nato in 2022 when Putin attacked further. The whole "neutral" lie is just that, pure Kremlin garbage.

I'm surprised the pro war pro Putin war mongers are still trotting out such easily debunked Kremlin junk like this.

Here is the reports of Putin removing 80% of his forces from Nato borders because Nato is such a "threat":

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/putin-debunks-his-own-propaganda-by-disarming-russias-nato-borders/

I can only consider it a willful and deliberate attempt to lie so blatantly when your claims can be so easily fact checked.

I hope you enjoyed my demolishing your Kremlin lies and propaganda post.