Its impossible to discuss anything rationally with brainwashed people . By definition they have zero insight that they are in fact, brainwashed. Its no different to a mentally ill individual having a fixed paranoid delusion, it's just on a mass scale, and state sanctioned. The state sanction makes it appear perfectly rational to millions. Few Germans involved thought their murderous antisemitism was anything but for the good of mankind and it was certainly "perfectly rational" in their minds. Honestly , don't waste your time on them. I have most of them on ignore. They are lost. Left and right wing. They are the collaborators of our time.
