How boring,
you guys work in packs.
You guys are contradictiong yourselves and then each other!
You have selectively convinced yourselves after some back slapping that YOUR own sources of data have not said the following.
then I am accused of making stuff up.
Lets start with point 13 first
13.
Lastly the very people who provide the data that Skeptical Science crew, the IPCC, NOAA and a host of others use to use to look at the climate. The same people that Trisatnc and mjp are telling me that I am using their data wrong have this to say about their data
Figure 6. Globally averaged temperature anomaly time series for the Temperature Lower Stratosphere (TLS). The plot shows the cooling of the lower stratosphere over the past 3 decades. This cooling is caused by a combination of ozone depletion and the increase of greenhouse gases. During the most recent decade, the rate of cooling has reduced substantially. (Click on the figure to go to the time series browse tool.)
http://www.remss.com/measurements/upper-air-temperature/[/BCOLOR]
SO I ask? Why am I using the data incorrectly if the IPCC , NOAA, NASA and RSS come to the exact same conclusion
Now to see the hypocrisy of some warmist accusing me of misrepresenting thee science?
1.
NOAAs finding and verified by TWO different sources data! Surface data and Stratosphere data!!!!!!!
A 10 percent drop in water vapor ten miles above Earth's surface has had a big impact on global warming, say researchers in a study published online January 28 in the journal Science. The findings might help explain why global surface temperatures have not risen as fast in the last ten years as they did in the 1980s and 1990s............
2.
We have mjp blaming Ozone recovery for the stagnating STRAOSPHERE cooling. But since then he has conveniently forgotton this post from this thread he made! LOL
Who'd have thought. Ozone began recovering in 2000. Gee, maybe that recovery has offset greenhouse gas stratospheric cooling.
3.
NOAA have already STATED that Water vapour has decreased and the IPCC acknowledge that Water vapour trapping in the Troposphere is a fingerprint for Stratosphere cooling. Ouch that must hurt
2.2.2.1 Stratospheric Water Vapour Stratospheric H2O vapour has an important role in the Earth’s radiative balance and in stratospheric chemistry. Increased stratospheric H2O vapour causes the troposphere to warm and the stratosphere to cool (Manabe and Strickler, 1964; Solomon et al., 2010),
4.
another little addition from the IPCC link previously posted in this thread that really makes a mockery of the stratosphere cooling, water vapour decline into the troposphere and stratosphere. As I keep saying fella's. Take it up witht he IPCC. Not the messenger. AGAIN this claim by the IPCC is directly OBSERVED as shown in above links by NOAA
To summarise, water vapour in the stratosphere has shown significant long-term variability and an apparent upward trend over the last half of the 20th century but with no further increases since 1996. It does not appear that this behaviour is a straightforward consequence of known climate changes. Although ideas have been put forward, there is no consensus as to what caused either the upward trend or its recent disappearance.
5.
We now have a direct reference from the IPCC using the EXACT same data as I do. But apparently this is not good enough.
Mjp is really now troubled by it. he is unsure to accept the data thus make a mockery of his claim earlier that Ozone recovery is the reason for the pause in Stratosphere temp recovery. Or to now ignore what he has said and now look at the overall regression and claim proof of stratosphere cooling. Although as shown at point 1 That NOAA have already stated opposite.
https://hotcopper.com.au/posts/31329466/single
https://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/figure-3-17.html
6.
mjp uses a link that states that OZONE recovery is a reason for the pause in strato temps!
The link also claims the following
"Climate models predict that if greenhouse gases are to blame for heating at the surface, compensating cooling must occur in the upper atmosphere"
Then from 2000, ozone starts recovering, after the Montreal Protocol decision to abandon ozone depleting CFCs. So the ozone recovery then began contributing to stratospheric warming. And offsets the CO2 cooling of the stratosphere.
Ozone recovery discussed here,
Recall that mjp has claimed that the globe as well as other sheep that we are warming faster than EVER. Which is contrary to NOAAs and the IPCC claim that the stratosphere is not cooling as fast as ever. In fact they have made it clear that it is not cooling!
refer to Point 1
8.
Then we have this post which basically sums up the contradictions from the tewo messiahs. One arguing stratosphere warming is due to ozone and the other saying no the stratosphere is still cooler using limitied data from a area that has not yet been endorsed by the ipcc or noaa in any research I have done. it is clear as per point 5 that the IPCC have no problem with this data. But TRISTANC now does!
9.
Then on page 1 a summary of the contradictions made by these guys is given. truly hilarious
https://hotcopper.com.au/posts/31360855/single
10.
We now have the issue that mjp claims hat the IPCC aproved TLS data I am using is GOOD. Just that I am using it wrong. But Tristanc is saying the data is not suited to be making the claims that the IPCC stated.
Truly at this point I am pissing myself at the comedy company duo patting each on the back but are actually disagrreing with each other. LOL
There's not really an "issue" with TLS. It's just an issue of making sure it's used appropriately with an understanding of what it is.
Perhaps @mjp2 mate you should tell us how the IPCC should have used this data then?
11.
Now we have Tristanc claiming that OZONE recovery is a plausible explanation for the stratosphere temperature anomalies as identified by NOAA via the Solomon paper. Remember water vapour and the blanket effect.
It seems perfectly reasonable that recovery of the ozone layer will affect stratospheric temperatures,
What is hilarious here is that Tristanc has continually argued I am using the data wrong but then offers up OZONE recovery as a reason for the Stratosphere anomaly. The very same DATA that the IPCC have used.
So this is the crux if it. If a skeptic makes that observation they are wrong. if the IPCC say it it is OK.
What a bunch of turkeys!
12.
just my insert.
mjp and tristnc covering their backsides
Skeptics ARE using the TLS data. But if they are using it right then the pause is because of OZONE recovery. LOL
13.
Lastly the very people who provide the data that Skeptical Science crew, the IPCC, NOAA and a host of others use. The very guys that Trisatnc and mjp are telling me is not suitable.
have this to say about their data
Figure 6. Globally averaged temperature anomaly time series for the Temperature Lower Stratosphere (TLS). The plot shows the cooling of the lower stratosphere over the past 3 decades. This cooling is caused by a combination of ozone depletion and the increase of greenhouse gases. During the most recent decade, the rate of cooling has reduced substantially. (Click on the figure to go to the time series browse tool.)
SO I ask? Why am I using the data incorrectly if the IPCC , NOAA, NASA and RSS come to the exact same conclusion
