I don't disagree with you, actually. I have never suggested that...

I don't disagree with you, actually. I have never suggested that Australia should follow a Chinese Russian or any other model --- particularly not a US model (its broken at present. Can't you see that). Australia, and all other countries should be free to find their own path --- including the Chinese and Uncle Ivan. Its just not our business as our choice is not their business.

But of you, "diligent" and I.

If we can't discuss things logically and civilly --- ie.dabate our political differences ---- what's left? Kill each other? Is that better? That is where war becomes the extension of politics by other means (little example). I want you to understand my thinking. You want me to understand yours. That is a healthy democratic process. But fighting, starting with incivility and insults, that is the opposite of democracy.

Anyway, I agree that had the Yanks not been dragged into WW2 things could and probably would have gone very badly for us. For that I thank them from the bottom of my heart. But their motive for intervening was NOT the liberty etc. of Australians it was the US national interest. I don't see the Chinese forcing their way down our throats. Not even Ivan. Their military isn't within cooee of Australia. They have taken no aggressive actions towards us --- other than buying up stuff we of our own volition sold to them. The Chinese from what I've seen and my own experiences just want to do business, they don't give a s__t about Australia's politics . Furthermore previously their interest and ours coincided1 very well thank you very much .

It makes absolutely no sense for Australia to pick a fight we can't win with the Chinese. What for? What does a middle ranking power like Australia have to gain except perhaps some brownie points with the Yanks? We're a prime target and can't defend ourselves against China if China does attack us --- so best not to pick the fight in the first place --- as our beloved leaders currently are doing. And when push comes to shove --- and it looks a lot like like push is degrading rapidly into shove --- and it's not or no longer in the Yanks national interest to come to our aid because thanks to them we got in over our necks, don't count on them to come rushing to our rescue (like they did for the poor old Afghans or the South Vietnamese). Not them nor their puppy dog the far-off Poms! Think Australia first because the Yanks will sure as hell think America first and, mate, when all is said and done you're an Australian just like me whether you're a left-winger or a right-winger (or you just play goal !!!) we both love our country (I hope).