PLS (ASX) The definitive EV thread. No spin. No BS.

Originally posted by Acgm: ↑

If it helps I wasn’t trying to upspec or downspec. I simply used the Hyundai online configurator, put in my postcode and looked at prices for the available models you had presented. That’s the price given for a N and also for the EV. Dropping the ICE to entry price model might leave some options in the EV not present in the given ICE - you noted that the original stimulus news article here had at least used comparable models so I tried to stay as close to your present information as possible.

Also - we are talking buying not leasing - I included the residual value which is what you would pay at end of the lease term to own the car outright. Concerns about flipping each 4 years thus not relevant as outcome in this scenario is the person who started a novated lease owns the car and may or may not chose to continuing to own whether it were an ICE or an EV. I did wonder if worth asking if the cars might sell privately each for more or less than the statutory residual value but that’s full of a whole lot more possible assumptions so I left that further analysis out for now.

In terms of charging infrastructure, upgrading from single phase to triple phase in order to charge an electric car would suggest your mate wants to be able to charge their car at a rate more than the theoretical maximum of a 15A outlet at 240V (3.6kW) using the onboard charger most cars come with. Your mate wants to DC fast charge at home or maybe operate at 22kW AC input to a car with compatible onboard charging? Guess that’s a choice relevant if covering lots of km per day.

I think the average km per day driven by the Australian public is still less than 100km (of course there would be some driving further and some driving further on particular days - I’m talking the “bulk” average). But let’s even assume a car is driven 300km in a day and then recharged overnight. Very very very roughly if it were using the 14kW/100km we used above for the Kona that’s about 42kWh of recharging to be done. If done at 3.6kW on a 15A outlet that’s circa 12 hours of charging. But only necessary to do it for 12 hours if the car needs to also drive 300km the next day. Point being, upgrading house mains supply to three phase would, I suspect, be an overspend for the vast majority.

Re solar recharging - well if charging while the sun is shining no need for battery and also no need for more solar charge ability than the rate at which the car charger is taking power. If a 15A socket and 3.6kW supply to the car charger my guess is something like a 4kW solar system would do the job. If the car is driven for the less than 100km “average” daily drive then that’s about 14kW of energy and about 4 hours of solar input to recharge at 3.6kW rate (yes longer for allowance at top of battery capacity but hey just run it between 30-70% of “full” it’s not like you can’t just plug in again the next day).

If charging at night (more likely) and want to do that “with solar”, well you could just pump the equivalent amount of power into the grid during the day and then take back out at night using the grid as your “battery” - but if doing it for economic reasons you might want a battery (I say “might” because I still get a higher tariff for feedin than for consumption so economically I could use the grid as my “battery” in this context). The battery would want to be big enough to provide the charge required for the next day use - sizing then becomes an interesting case of optimising factors of cost, space, size and how often its “full” capacity would be used. But let’s not forget it also would require consideration of the tarrif structures available in your mate’s area. They might find that the $40k cost is only partially attributable to the car when considering other household energy costs being offset by the solar and battery.

Upshot? Yep detailed analysis would have different results in different circumstances but to say the sticker price to purchase difference of ICE vs EV only is the paramount factor is, I think, missing the bigger picture here.

Will the public “work that out”? Maybe.

Expand

I've been on a bit of a mission to educate myself on this topic so apologies for the delay.
After some thorough research, I'm convinced there is some big merit to what you're saying about running an EV via novated lease.

I'm of the opinion now that, if you use novated leasing to run your vehicle, have an off-street garage to park it in, and have zero interest in hobbies such as sports cars, 4x4ing, towing a boat/caravan/race car/trailer, or doing huge kms often, then you'd be crazy not to get an EV over a similarly priced ICE powered car.

Now all we need is for the government to give 911's the same FBT exemption!

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