"Who else is waiting Wotsup?" -> I asked ppm to provide such verses so ALL on here could see them or it, so that is the "who" = all on here.
"Jesus was there with other angels when the universe was created."
And the scriptures supporting this ARE?
"He is ''the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God.''
Before you sent your post to me, you thought and considered what to write to me - that was the beginning of the creation of your post to me, firstborn of it. It was also your logos and with you and part of You, the inner spirit of you, you, to which you expressed, just like Yehowah did in John 1:3.
Here is another creation, in the mind of God which is known as his logos, inner; Rev 13:8 - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from (away from Inter...)the foundation of the world.
This plan, creation, was hid In God Eph 3:9 and is also known as the firstborn of creation, the beginning of the creation of God. All our creations, NO question about it, begin In us.
"He was sent to earth"
God's word via the Angel and power (Holy Spirit) came down and made the 2nd Adam man.
From the Bible truths, we know with certainty that Jesus ONLY come into being, as per the simple language, come opener of Luke. The word and Power (Holy Spirit which is God's Spirit) came down and made the 2nd Adam man, one nature and made Lower than Angels to suffer death. NOT reduced from something to become lower. The fact that he was made by the word and power coming down from heaven, he is deemed as heavenly, not made of dust.
Therefore, we are left with no option but to say, the firstborn of creation, the beginning of the creation of God, are all in reference to his creations within him which are also known as his logos John 1:1,2, part of as Gens creation was another part of his logos, right where ALL our creations, foundations and words begin, for all we do and express.
Deu 18:18 - I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. = FUTURE. Absolutely NO hint here Mr G, that some pre-existing being of a kind, would enter or become this one, coming from a brethren. So you Mr G, need to find a prophesy that shows us such, otherwise you are grossly ADDING to the scriptures.
Raising, part of -> Luke 2:40,52 - And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him. And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. Tell me Mr G, if Jesus pre-existed, then this suggests that he fell out of favor at some point, why would that be???? If you say the likes of, no, that is only talking about when he was in the flesh, then do PLEASE, provided a verse that even suggests such.
Gal 4:4 - But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, Sent when -> John 17:18 - As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
As Jesus was raised and taught in the word and sent into the world after his Baptism, likewise he taught them and sent them into the world. They like Jesus, did not pre-exist. --------------- "need to accept Jesus as the Messiah if you are to be saved."
That's a given and no scripture says you Must believe he pre-existed, other than a plan to be in the future, in the mind of God. ----------------- "He is much more than a mere man."
According to the scriptures, he is a mere man in the context of the 1st Adam before the fall, but not made of dust. However, he is above the 1st in the context that all of God's plans, creations centered around this future one in mind. Hence the meaning of -> for in him, the future one to be, all things were created by Yehowah, alone and by himself and by his expressed word and power for -> on account of, by reason of, because of, for the sake of the future one to be. Isa 44:24, Psa 33:6,9.
This (Jesus to be) is known as the Glory insofar held by Yehowah alone, before the world existed with him, which Jesus asks for, as well as God's literal presence John 17:5 Interlinear's truth. (slightly different word order, but same message).
God ordained this man etc, etc, gave him all things, which God has not done for another man.
I would suggest to you, because it was man that caused the fall, so to speak, that it was a man that needed to correct it. To show satan that someone lower than him, could do what he didn't = case closed and satan has zero defense in regards to blaming God for his actions. (Not necessary Biblical, but it makes perfect sense). He was without blemish, with God's help, setting the stage, an example of what can be done, if God is with you. ("I'm not suggesting, we atm can be the same)
This is my thoughts Mr G, to suggest Jesus is not a 2nd Adam as I have covered, imo is to grossly lower His achievements and the power of God working through him. It was because of what the man Jesus achieved, that God was beholding to raise him Acts. ----------------- Mr G -> WHY is there no words from Jesus, pre the cross of him saying -> I go BACK to the Father ??? Surely he would have said such, if he was there before?
In the NT where Jesus speaks of God making man, he does NOT place himself there, and the verse reads like, Jesus found that out by reading the scriptures -> have a good look at it. ("Have you not read".... -> like me?).
