Okay, this has now gotten completely out of hand. Given the...

  1. 8,256 Posts.
    Okay, this has now gotten completely out of hand.

    Given the global problems and local festering issues, enough is enough and time for a complete universal change of approach (at least in the West).

    We have the Islamic community/s, supported (and even egged on) by apologists claiming that the problems are (predominantly) caused by people who are not representative of true Islam (whatever that is) and then we have so-called "experts" like Anne Aly who refuse to point the figure at the obvious (those doing the radicalising e.g. Hizb ut Tahrir) and instead say "we" need to focus on mentoring young people before they are radicalised - that is a pretty one dimensional approach that still leaves the metaphorical guns sitting out in the open.  All very well to try to protect the bullets, but that is not going to solve the problem.

    Given there is no formal hierarchy in Islam, anyone can be a preacher/teacher and I believe the root of the problem lies both with the word of the Quran and the preachers who spread the word.  The Islamic view is that some people are misinterpreting the Quran and so that is where the problem lies.  If we want to accept such an excuse, then the Islamic leaderships and their communities are failing to snuff out the actions of those who misinterpret their book and so instead, the excuses run wild and in the end, infidels are blamed for stirring the pot.  But they will claim it is not their problem.

    So if "moderate" Islam claims it has nothing to answer for and at the same time, it is toothless in stamping out the supposed renegades (who are apparently therefore not true muslims), then "moderate" Islam should not have a problem if the state needs to take its own action and more, it should not have a problem with an accreditation system for all persons who teach the Quran (but in reality, we know it would not stand for a system of compliance).

    Most other religions appear to have formal hierarchies and therefore, there is already a vested interest and level of control over those who preach and teach.  Islam does not have such a degree of hierarchy and while it might attempt to claim all sorts of Imam councils of leadership/groups, the truth is, at best there will be many preachers/teachers who are either not compliant with community ideals, or at worst, then the problem is that the Islamic groups themselves and therefore the communitiy/s are too splintered.

    Islam is historically designed to operate in a society where the politics take care of the day to day operations in supposedly keeping the order, while the religious leadership ensure the law is being taught and run properly.

    In the West, this system is clearly in conflict because the political leadership are not muslims.  One simply cannot fit a square peg in a round hole.

    In the Middle East, this system has also proven not to work either because the religious controllers still live in the first millennia where dark age mentality is the norm, while the world around them has moved forward. Battles and wars have raged since the days of Mohammad.

    In Islamic dominated countries outside the Middle East (e.g. Indonesia), there is a little more order, because those societies took root in later and more modern times than the Middle East, however, the religious iron fist still rules, so non-muslims are not overly comfortable to live in such places by comparison with non-muslim countries.

    Now to the licensing concept.

    We live in a society where peak body organisations are in place to set certain standards and ensure they are upheld.

    We have Primary Industry, Engineering, Building & Construction, Science and Technology peak bodies and all sorts of Quality Assurance.  When it comes to people-to-people industries, standards get even more serious, with the Medical Board of Australia and the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency and the Nursing and Midwifery Board setting standards and accreditations to ensure that people are looked after - and if a bad egg slips through the cracks, it is typically the exception rather than the rule and it will typically be prosecuted and stamped out.

    So then back to religion - another people to people "industry" that has the potential to and does direct how so many lead their lives.  Given the potential power of certain groups and individuals in this industry, why would there not equally be a universal set of standards and accreditations (governed by an independent peak body) that are required to be upheld?

    I could go on and into so much more detail, but this goes to the heart of where the problem lies.  And if people want to throw all religious groups into the mix, so be it - let them all stand on their merits - I guarantee that the religions with more formal hierachies than Islam will easily be more compliant across the board than Islam.

    It all comes back to definition.  Let the religions strictly define themselves and their groupings as part of a set of standards, compliances and accrediatations and ultimately a license for each group and each individual.  If there is a process of definition demanded, we will soon discover the big problem - Islam cannot really define itself because there is no formal hierarchy - in the end, the definition and understanding of a Muslim is determined by the individual.  In Islam, there are thousands upon thousands of individuals who are equally "teachers"...okay, so let them be licensed and subject to the laws of the land if they breach their standards, let them face the consequences.  I guarantee that Islam and its leaderships would be the last to come to the table kicking and screaming all the way if compliancy was demanded.

    Egypt is already imposing a certain degree of standards on their religious community, closing down many "backyard operators" and monitoring all religious speeches.  As a Muslim country, their compliance would still be at odds with what our own standards might be, however, it still demonstrates that we could similarly set our own standards.

    If we want to control how many "radical" Muslims there are in our country, compliancy to an overarching independent set of standards is the way to go.  We would soon find a number of one-way tickets out of here - good riddance.

    In my mind, forcing Islam and its preachers to meet a set of independent standards (with severe penalties if in breach) will go a lot further in reigning in the problems than banning Islamic immigration - we would not attract anyone who would consider stepping out of line.

    Applying this same concept globally would help to put Islam back into its box.  Then let us see how true supposed "moderate" muslims get on with their lives without causing problems around them and if they do, good luck to them.
    Last edited by jessie1: 20/07/16
 
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