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Err...sir...what are you on about here?? I have been trying to tell you guys all along. You are SUBORDINATED AND without security. I am not sure how you can ever hang your hat on what you said. You are alluding to perhaps documentation not mentioning that a bank has taken security over a loan to a company. What else would it have done?? In any case, you are still subordinated - ie you rank below creditors. Whichever you cut it, like I said, the banks want all you holders to vote on wind up. Suits them down to the ground. Not sure about BNB, but then again who cares about them? If I were a bank, I certainly wouldn't!!