Understanding lithium demand, page-1569

Some updates - thought I would update this thread since I last posted here back in very early Sept (see post above).

Have posted in other threads elsewhere so thought may as well bring some of those posts where talk supply/demand back to this thread I started eons ago. I prefer to keep this thread as a general understanding demand and supply thread meaning leave the other discussions in other threads. Essentially this post is just a duplication of posts I have done elsewhere.

McDermitt Calera

Some might remember a few weeks ago this deposit was state to be the largest in the world and will allow the USA to be self sufficient in meeting its lithium needs.
World's Largest Lithium Deposit Found in Nevada: Where Is It? (popularmechanics.com)Decided to look at this deposit at the time and below are some thoughts I posted in another thread. Lots of newspaper headlines at the time.

Here is a table on something already reported on the McDermitt Calera lithium -Extracting Lithium (911metallurgist.com)


The known here is that it is a clay deposit, possible some form of lacustrine sediment formation that needs further work to establish. The Li20 grade is ok - at about 0.36% - 0.64% Li (or about 0.78% Li20 - 1.37Li20), which is actually very good for a clay deposit, but iit s not a brine also, and the key is whether it can be treated viably to produce positive NPV/IRR. Noting the table istwo samples onlyand not indication of overall grade throughout the deposit.

The key around viability for clays is around the following:
1. Deleterious amounts in the clays and ease of extraction/separation.
2. Recovery rates.
3. Costs of extraction and amount of reagents to be used.
4. Grain size a key and variability of grain sizes in the resource which impacts recovery and capex costs in particular.

The above are specimens, and I note the UGPS states grade is more around the 0.3 Li mark for the depsoit itself, still very good for a clay deposit -Lithium in the McDermitt caldera, Nevada and Oregon (usgs.gov)

Ultimately clay is a new area of development and I'll just leave this paper up for others to form own views - the key to 2 and 3 above is actually 1 and 4, as clay deposits by the very nature they are formed vary between deposits andwithinthe same deposit - a good article IMO on McDermitt itself and some past tests:
Extracting Lithium (911metallurgist.com)

Now deleterious elements - well Mg, F and Fe are key deleterious elements here and they are very high. A case in point, Bolivia has the largest brine deposit but it is utterly useless given the Mg content in it - refer point 4Post #:69711272.

Whilst conceptual, attrition scrubbing could be a solution but the effectiveness of attrition scrubbing is also based on the shape of the grain size itself, as per below, so it is not as easy as one may think it is and application of this technology for clays still needs a lot of work. And grain sizes in clays differ which equates to cost. Or in other words recovery rates, given particle variability, are likely to be low without a significant improvement in technology.
Attrition Scrubbers (911metallurgist.com)

Implication is the sediment and makeup of clay grains, and they are not homogenous, which is pretty obvious given how the deposits form, so it will be interesting how resource variability issues and how that feeds into costs alone come through should anyone ever get access to those lands, let alone accessing it given its location and dealing with the 'spiritual' issues of such access, and how that impacts costs, especially removing deleterious elements, recovery and viability. This clay deposit is also a smevitie-illite clay, and that means variability in deleterious elements as well as grain sizes.

All IMO and probably looking at 10 years plus before this clay deposit comes on stream,if it comes on stream at all. A lot has to happen in the interim.

Energy storage
A lot of forecasts are given around EVs but not much is said around energy storage. Whilst for large scale batteries, these are probably the domain of vanadium, lithium will play IMO a key role in smaller scale battery storage systems and the household market. Having said that the Tesla battery in South Australia is quite large itself so it is clear lithium could operate on large scale battery storage projects (that many might presume like me may be the domain of vanadium). Further info on this view in Post #:51923932

The opening post in this thread provides details, as does a previous post of mine on this thread back in Feb 2023, around how much lithium is in a battery.

Assuming battery packs are in effect similar for energy storage systems - noting how the SA tesla battery works is in effect just more individual battery packs to form large scale storage system -All The Details On Tesla’s Giant Australian Battery (gizmodo.com.au)- then possibly use this as a guide below. If others have calcs for energy storage be interested myself as haven't looked at large scale energy storage itself which is going to be an important market as well etc. The Tesla battery is 100MW

a.) 100 MW installed capacity * 0.9 tonnes LCE per MW = 90 tonnes LCE = 675 tonnes of 6% grade spodumene.
b.) The lithium content in 100 MW assuming I have done this correctly = about 2,000 EVs assuming a battery size of 50kWh (you need 45kg of LCE for a 50kWh battery).

Sodium batteries
In other posts on this thread have yabbered other battery types. One I haven't posted on in this thread relates to sodium.

Akey to speed of an EV car is the weight of what you are pulling. Lithium is the 3rd element in the periodic table - only helium and hydrogen are lighter elements. So in totality if you are going to produce a battery it needs to be light - meaning higherenergy density per kg of battery material- whilst having good voltage and watt release to pull the vehicle weight. There is a reason lithium is used in batteries, in combination with other minerals, and weight is one, and the important other is potential for energy density per kg of battery material (as that contributes to a less weighter battery) in achieving speed etc.

Against this, the drawbacks of sodium batteries are several. In particular, they degrade quicker than lithium batteries. Sodium ions are also larger than lithium ions, and that cause a key issue around movement of sodium ions through the seperator in batteries ( larger size in the electrolyte essentially is an issue). It is why your sodium batteries are heavy, compared to lithium ion batteries.. Molecular weights in links below:

Refer:Molecular weight of Li (convertunits.com)andMolecular weight of Na (convertunits.com)
Sodium is 230% more heavier than Lithium and weight is an important issue when it comes to speed, noting lithium batteries have a higher energy density per kg of battery material currently to sodium batteries (and noting sodium batteries are also heavier than lithium batteries right now)

But here also the other crunch - the voltage of sodium batteries is around 2.7 volts, compared to about 3.7 for lithium ion batteries, meaning sodium has a slower recharge/discharge rates than lithium batteries, ultimately meaning they are not suitable for applications where a lot of power is required immediately for use - like EVs. Still conceptual and a lot of work still required.

Yes sodium is abundant, but a lot more research needs to go into sodium to make those batteries effective to lithium batteries, particularly dealing with energy density per kg of battery material and voltage which needs to really improve a lot to counterbalance the periodic table element weight issues as well, given sodium is a heavier element to lithium. Weight is a key to the efficiency of EV in maintaining speed comparable to ICE vehicles as well is my point. As well as needing to address degrade issues as well. Still very conceptual is my point.

Yes I know this update is probably a little more boring than previous updates on this thread, but I like to keep developments in one place when I yabber on other threads.

All IMO