I don't think that we can count Ukraine in the same story as China
with China - there's really only 2 parts in the mix----------- America - which, by it's own words - has been trying to contain China from about 1950 -- and, China - who has been the object of American attention since then - the rest of the crew are pretty much just supporting acts - including SK.
Ukraine is a very different kettle of fish - America of course has to be interfering - but, there's a lot more player involved besides Russia and America
Europe has a lot of skin in the game - so does the UK - so, it's more complex - and, more confusing
naturally - anything the yanks touch - turns to shit though - they seem very well skilled at that - but, Europe did tell them were to go a bit -
German base towns have now a vastly different attitude to American military personnel and America in general - when I was there last year wherever (can't recall the towns - I think they got a mention on my lifestyle thread from a while back) I was - the atmosphere isn't great and the ill feeling pretty palpable.
