starbust, very good points but don't expect a coherent, logical, or scientific response, because you are never going to get one. It's sort of like arguing with Tom Cruise about Scientology, or with the pope about Catholicism or a collingwood supporter -it doesn't matter how right you are, you are wrong, in their eyes. In the old days they would have burnt us 'non-believers' at the stake, and some of them would do it these days if they could get away with it! But, hypocritically, they spruik to others about how 'Democracy' is best-as long as it's 'their' form of Democracy-dissenters not allowed! Read "1984' if you haven't already and watch how BIG Brother dupes the masses so easily. History really does repeat-intolerance of other's opinions or culture or ethnic background etc etc, Nazism is not too far removed from most societies no matter how much they may deny it.
