Why Direct Action is Best

Originally posted by Scarpa ↑

I think the argument is essentially some of Australia's CO2 emisisons come from export commodities such as LNG, coal, alumina, mineral sands etc. As export commodities the essential argument is that the CO2 emissions are linked back to Australia but if Australia didn't produce them then there would be more CO2 produced in countries such as China and India than otherwise would be the case because they would be using more inept local coal (not of the same scale as Australia) to manufacture alumina, Stainless steel for example and use of dirier coal in power genertation for the people etc (i.e increase in CO2 emissions than otherwise would be the case if bought from Oz). So hence the need to bring India/China into the fold - no point hitting Oz if the effect is more CO2 been produced than otherwise would be the case. This is the political interest argument - just need a world solution to the issue but it is needed to be addressed or else self interest dictates. Renewables need development because do not produce base load options at reasonable cost for electricity generation - do not confuse base load options with peaking units etc (see below).

And then there is the power stations - the argument for these is to transition them to gas before something else (i.e the State I live in at the moment gas fired accounts for 50%of electricity production). I recall a while ago IRR studies of coal and gas fired options (don't bother with others at this stage as not base load material - good as peaking units but not in installations of 600MW which is how you build these base load power stations, Certainly renewables can compete effectively as peaking units etc). Because domestic gas prices are too high even with a $25 carbon tax coal wins hands down for base load 600 MW power units. So need to get domestic gas prices down to get gas up unfortunately - $8 per gigajoule domestic gas prices doesn't cut the mustard (an absolute joke give Australia is gas rich but there you go). And like I said base load renewable options don't essentially exist without killing domestic industry because of the electricity charge that comes out, unfortunately. So suggest many here do actual research on power station options and the prices that you get for electricity under various options (coal/gas/renewables etc etc and don't confuse peaking units with base load)

So need a wold solution to the issue or self interest will IMO dictate whilst the planet gets stuffed up. Further R&D of renewables is required to make them base load competitive, as well as better improvements to housing design, planning, provision of public infrastructure etc etc. A carbon tax in itself or an ETS won't do a lot without other measures, unfortunately. Commonwealth needs to get more active but I get a feeling this is going to be another talk fest without actual action as has occurred in the past, because of self-interest. All IMO IMO IMO

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Sensible take and reasonable points made. Clear a multilateral solution needs to be sought. Otherwise all you can do unilaterally is slap down a local tax, and then somehow balance it with a tariff on imports from countries without adequate environmental protections.

Hence why things like Paris are needed to develop multilateral solutions. But like you said we'll see what actually comes of it.