Originally posted by tonio
"As per the clear meanings of the Greek word DIA = by reason of, on account of, for the sake of,
because of, through the future one TO BE"
Hi Wotsup,
What is clear is that your understanding , use and translation of the word DIA in scripture is faulty.
In your own words
"Now when you spot 2,3 - 4 English words for the translation of what is obviously one Greek word for example, something is seriously wrong. "
and Wotsup, something is seriously wrong with your additions to scripture
The correct translation for DIA with the genitive =
through
https://biblehub.com/greek/1223.htm
Hi Tonio,
I'm not sure your ready or prepared to seriously seek the truth?
Now when you spot 2,3 - 4 English words for the translation of what is obviously one Greek word for example, something is seriously wrong. "
Now come on Tonio --> I will give you the benefit of doubt on this one and assume you have misunderstood what I was saying here?
Otherwise, if you did understand, then it is very misleading and deceptive conduct to say we have two instances here in the exact same context and to try and use it you your advantage to discredit me.
So when I have said the above of which you quoted, it was more so to do with the OT and the Hebrew and I noticed it a few times.
Now when I say 2,3 -4 words it is in reference to the extra added words, supposedly arising from one Hebrew word and those ADDED words have Zero relationship to the Hebrew word.
Definition:
through, on account of, because of
Usage:
(a)
gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.
Rev 13:8, 3:14 and Col 1:15 are all CLEARLY in reference to God's INNER Logos, Inner creation, Just as Eph 3:9.
So lets US look at the truth as to how the Bible and the Greeks dictate to us, as to how we should view the "through" word (Context) when it comes to the creation matters that include Jesus.
Now you should know full well, the dictionary generally gives the meaning of a word and a number of options to SHOW the context of what the first word selection is to be TAKEN IN, as shown above.
Greek Dia = Through, by reason of, on account of, for the sake of and because of.
So Tonio, the STAGE is well and truly set here as to the context, meaning of which through is to be taken.
Also, WE, yes you me and everyone, need to also LOOK to the Bible's overall message and that will also assist us or DICTATE to us, as to how through needs to be understood in the creations events that include Jesus.
Neh 9:6 -
Thou, thou LORD (Almighty God and Father)alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
Psa 119:105 - By the word of the LORD were the heavens made and all the host of them by the breath of
HIS Mouth.
Isa 45:12 -
I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I,evenmy hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
Isa 44>24 -
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Jesus confirms this;
Matt 19:4 -
And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he (Almighty God and Father) which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (No way does Jesus include himself here and Gen tells us, that this HE here is God).
It is very clear here Tonio, we are talking of a singular identity, Almighty God and Father and there are truck loads more verses just like it, repeat, repeat.
This THEN forces us to set aside the preconditioned seeds in our head and seriously look at the odd NT verses where a hint of Jesus is implied in the creation events. We must let the Bible, OT guide us and the TRUE context of which the through is to be understood regarding Jesus.
Greek - Col; 1:15-17 - Who (Jesus) is the image of God the invisible, the firstborn over all creation.
because in him were created the things all things in the heavens and upon the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities: the things all things through
(by reason of, on account of, for the sake of, because of) Him and unto him have been created.
And he is before all things, and the things all things in Him hold together.
1 Cor 8:6 - Yet to us one God, theFather,out of whom the things all things, and we for him; and one Lord, JesusChrist, through (by reason of, on account of, for the sake of, because of) whom the things all, and we through (by reason of, on account of, for the sake of, because of) him.
Logos and well and truly understood and known several hundred years before Jesus came = Your Inner word, reasoning,
inner creation before you express it either on the paper as in plans as the Almighty God and Father had;
Eph 3:9 -
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,who created all things. (Just as it is confirmed many times in the OT, which MUST interpret the NT, NO option).
That right there Tonio, is The Almighty God and Father inner plan, inner creation, beginning of it.
The future one TO BE, was the forefront, driver, purpose of God, the beginning of His Creation as in;
Titus 1:2 -
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before time eternal;
2 Tim 1:9 -
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before time eternal,
(Now we were not literally called back then Tonio, spoken of here as though we were, Jesus as some passages speak as though Jesus was there when if in fact, his literally beginning only happened at Mary).
Rev 3:14 -
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; (In the mind and plans of God, inner logos, the future Jesus was in mind, center stage).
Rev 13:8 - Jesus pre-slain, again leaves us not option to say it was God's Inner Logos, inner creation.
Col 1:15 = the exact same context, the mind and plans of God, his first inner creation was Jesus = Firstborn of creation, in mind and plans of God.
All this Tonio, is also know as Glory and held by God alone before anything literally came into being and confirmed by Jesus if one actually looks to the Greek truth of John 17:5 -
And now glorify Me You, Father, with yourself (literally now), with glory--> (Titus 1:2) insofar held before the world existed, with you.
God himself is Glory, hence Jesus asking for that and the Glory which was in God before the world even existed as shown in his word as you have just seen in the likes of 2 Tim 1:9, we are hanging out for this Glory which was in God before time eternal for us, and I could say, the glory "I had" before the world existed with God, but naturally, we were NOT there just as Jesus was not.
(Note - I said could say (example only) doesn't mean I'm cock sure I'm a sure thing).
Take note Tonio = Part of the above verse - and
we through
(by reason of, on account of, for the sake of, because of) him.
Now we were not there right back at creation = future context the very reason, driver or big part of it for God, was for this future one, Jesus and Hence;
John 3:35 -
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
Matt 28:18 -
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
John 17:2 -
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Not a single HINT here Tonio that Jesus got this BACK = he never ever had it prior and this timing would only have been around his Baptism timing.
give eternal life = He was lead and taught, raised by God and at Baptism received the Spirit without measure and as God's word is also Spirit he would have effectively received that without measure and God is Spirit/Word/Light and what this then meant was;
John 5:26 - For as the Father has life in himself (John 1:4 and in His Words) so has he Given to the Son to have life in himself. (God and Fathers words in him)
and it also meant;
John 12:46 - I am come
a light into the world,.........BECAUSE James 1:17 - His God and Father is -->Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
AND --> 1 John 1:5 - God is Light.
So,.... Tonio, my use of --> through
(by reason of, on account of, for the sake of, because of), was very appropriate to use as such to help one get the true context and full understanding of the way the "through" word is to be used, understood and the other definitions given, in no way change the meaning of the passage.
And to top it off, I am sure I placed it in brackets with italic, which generally shows, it's questionable or pay attention and perhaps check.
But never the less, the snippet of verses provided, clearly dictate to us as to how the Bible intended it to be.
You know the line --> precept upon precept and line upon line.
