Originally posted by tonio
"You need to look future as I have seen it used in the various way, on account, of etc in passage where it should be used no different to the ones where is appears Jesus had involvement in creation"
Hi Wotsup,
Reams of verses but not one that supports your translation of Dia.
Why is that? Do you concede that your were mistaken to tranlate Dia when it is with the genitive as
on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of,
If not surely you can quote one verse that supports your position?
Should be not problem for one who claims to quote more bible verses that anyone else.clear.png
Reams of verses but not one that supports your translation of Dia.
Why is that?
Translation of Your comment here;
Dear God and Jesus = THE WORD and the exalted Name, Jesus = The Word of God, here take my finger and this is what I think of your following words which undoubtedly would show your Truth, Yes you one Spirit of Truth.
Isa 28:10 -
For precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little:
I would suggest IF you did your homework, you may have but let the following fly over your head.
Through is pretty much the channel, the way, reasons, cause, the driver, reasons for.
Now then, I provided you many verses which clearly show, the Almighty God and Father ALONE created and that was VIA HIS word.
Psa 33:6 & 9 -
By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
9 - For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
Neh 9:6 - Thou, thou, LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
Isa 45:12 - I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I,evenmy hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
As Bowral once told YOU, it does not matter what you or I say, but WHAT the Bible says;
Now seriously, your NOT going to try and create a concoction here, that this is referring to an us, may God and Jesus help you if you do?
WHY did Jesus not say, "we" created them male and female, lets get real, He is the True Church, are you saying he was lying by omission? So the Bible Truth, the One Spirit of Truth, Almighty God and Father shows us, the best conclusion we can come to on the ours and us is, some of the Hosts of heaven were observers ONLY in creation OR as Proverbs shows us very clearly, God's wisdom founded the world etc and that wisdom is personified as though it's a being.
Hence as we do ourselves unless you want to deny a truth, God could very well have be thinking, speaking to himself as we know full well, He would have wanted these courses of events recorded.
So they are your ONLY 2 options available and I will not step outside of them, you do what you like and keep your OWN creations.
Through - Titus 1:2 - In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before time eternal;
What was the Almighty God and Father going to do this through, what was going to be his motives, Channel, how was he going to achieve this?
Rev 13:8 - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Do your homework, Greek for foundation can mean conception as clearly this plan was IN GOD as per;
Eph 3:9 - And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things:
(Clearly this IS conception, His Inner Logos, you INNER creation, foundation THROUGH which you are going to do things, driver, reason for, on account of, THROUGH this future one TO BE as per 2 Sam 7:12-14).
2 Tim 1:9
- Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before time eternal,
(Now were they or us before time eternal and given this literally and existing with the God and Father = No and NO. Does Jesus being pre-slain say he was there with the Almighty God and Father = No and NO, but THROUGH this future one, God created all things).
Where does your creation begin, within you dummy, the Architect thinks of his design for a high-rise, expresses that out either via word or on paper. Just as you formed words in your mind, your creation and a whopper at that, and expressed it out using you fingers.
Just like the Bible tells us, one of the things God's Word means, is His finger.
Inner logos and WE don't care if you Dutch, or Chinese or a Monkey, starts within YOU as per the following;
Rev 3:14 - And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen--> (Jesus), the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
(Clearly this, a Son to be and through him, the channel, on account of, for the sake of, by reason of, God was going to create etc, etc and future Jesus being the first of his, Almighty God and Fathers inner creation).
Confirmed = Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of creation:
First thought, plan that come to mind, inner creation and THROUGH whom all things would be.
Image of = how and when did this happen.
Simple's = When he received the fullness of the Godhead, Spirit/Word = The Word = The Almighty God and Father at Baptism timing, completed after being raised, led and taught via God and was promise to Moses Deu 18:18.
Confirmed by none other than Jesus;
John 14:10 - Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Acts 2:22 - Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did[SIZE=5][SIZE=5] through him[/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=5] in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=5]Heb 1:3 -[/SIZE] [FONT=Roboto][COLOR=#001320][BCOLOR=transparent]Who being the brightness of[/BCOLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][SIZE=16px][I][FONT=Roboto][COLOR=#001320][BCOLOR=transparent] [/BCOLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/I][/SIZE][COLOR=#001320][BCOLOR=transparent][SIZE=5][SIZE=5][B]glory,[/B][SIZE=5] and the [/SIZE][/SIZE][B][SIZE=5]express image[/SIZE][/B][/SIZE][/BCOLOR][/COLOR][FONT=Roboto][COLOR=#001320][BCOLOR=transparent][SIZE=5]of his person, and upholding all things by [/SIZE][B]the word of his power,[/B][SIZE=5] when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;[/SIZE][/BCOLOR][/COLOR][/FONT]
Word of His power = Following shows these words, power were Not his, they were given to Him = Spirit/Word.
Glory =
The Almighty God and Father is Glory AND His Word is Glory.
Express image = John 3:34 - For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
John 12:49 - For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. (Deu 18:18).
Jesus having the Spirit/Word, the Almighty God and Father in him, speaks,....hence he IS expressing OUT the Almighty God and Father who IS SPIRIT/WORD/LIGHT.
John 3:35 - The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
Matt 28:18 - And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Phil 2:8-9 -
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wherefore (for THIS reason) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: = The Word of God, name only to represent the role God had for him before time eternal.
So now and not like the Col, & Rev verses, we now have God doing things THROUGH the LITERAL Jesus, the Channel, but it is God doing them with the Holy Spirit/Word = Power as that is who he is, This One Spirit one Almighty God and Father.
So we have as promised, when the future one came and was SENT into the world, Baptism timing, we Have Immanuel, Almighty God and Father dwelling in the Temple, not built with Hands = 2 totally different Identities.
Col 1:16 - For IN him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created through him, and for him:
Now looky looky Tonio, are you SEEING the context here,
IN and FOR Jesus, meaning, not he that created, he was the cause, reason, on account of through, the channel and all in the FUTURE context and likewise, we are for him, created for him, you know, how You do all things for you family, the driver of your works, thinking.
17 -
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
18
Greek - And he is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, firstborn, out from the dead, so that, might be in all things He holding preeminence.
So you see Tonio, Jesus's preeminence was always in the forefront of God's mind, within God and the death sealed this plan of God, and it was for this VERY reason, death, we now have the literal Jesus, having preeminence.
John's book 1:115 - gives us the very same example, of before Jesus literal beginning at Mary.
1:15 - John witness concerning him, and he cried out, saying, This was He of whom I was saying, The (one) after me coming, precedence over me has, he was.
Now we know full well that John was born before Jesus, and the following and what's been cover, explain this, meaning.
precedence over me has, he was. --> Rev 13:8 - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
The very same reason Jesus says, before Abraham I am = zero capitals should be here as in I AM.
In the mind and plans of God, future context, was Jesus, before Abraham and to read anything else into this, IS NOT of God and the abandonment of the whole truth.
Which we are told many times in the Bible WOULD happen, no if buts, the gate is narrow.
For those that misuse and abuse the Col 1:17 and TRY and align it to Col 1:15 is a disgrace to The Word and The Word of God = God and Jesus and is not of the Spirit of Truth, they are two totally different things, events.
So Tonio, unless you are prepared to counter the above and the prior post via The Word, then do not waste my time.
